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Chances/Risk of Catching Anything?

If it is just an email from a customer, I would highly doubt its truth. These girls fuck 1,000s of guys in their career. Some fuck over 10,000. So, of course they will have a few disgruntled, psycho customers that spread lies. Just look at Quickdraw, Slag etc. and all the lies he spread about Daniella. Don't believe anything you read on a hooker review board.

In Bowmanville, for example, there are approximately 10,000 men of adult age. Some girls fuck the equivalent of a typical Ontario town of male residents. Now that's what I call a whore. Holy Shit. One girl told me she fucked 16 guys a day.

did not want to say this but after seeing the email I showed a friend, and he said he got tested that he had chlamydia two weeks ago. Got treatment.

But he said his only sexual contact since last tested without any disease was with mpas. May not be true - could have seen someone on the side or an sp - but that means he could got it from an mpa.

He didn't remember all their names but mentioned Nina, Katie, Tracy, Lynda, Zoey, Alexis, Amie, Candy as girls he had seen since he said he was clean, and had bbbj with all of them, and cfs with some of them. No bbfs.

he could have got from one or exposed them. Or others. And the same mpas could transmit to others.
 
You know a girl takes care of herself by:

Showering every time even after just a body slide

That she insists on protection

And that she insists on the guy using mouth wash and refrain from using digits
 
You know a girl takes care of herself by:

Showering every time even after just a body slide

That she insists on protection

And that she insists on the guy using mouth wash and refrain from using digits

Showering yes. Protection for fs yes but not bbbj. Some girls do cim as well.

I've not seen mouthwash in the spas (except Cherry at perla). And of the girls listed, I'm not sure all the digit or daty restrictions exists.

I'd be hesitant with the spa on unprotected extras for a bit until girls have a chance to get tested and treated.

I've seen some girls away for a week, which is time for treatment so who knows.
 
Guys, visiting hookers and complaining or worrying about potential exposure to Stis is like a Klan member buying a ticket to an NBA game and swearing because of all the black guys on the court.

If you are going to partakae in this industry, you are exposing yourself to risk. These girls see thousands of men, so yes, there is a risk. Get over it. Either wear protection at all times or go MGTOW.
 
If you have seen any of those girls to get tested if you had any unprotected interaction (like bbbj). And watch out if they took time off recently or in the future or they suddenly stop bbbj.

Maybe get tested if you haven't in a while anyway.

Not complaining @Ursus. Sharing a warning.
 
Ask your friend to go thru the attendants roster on the premier site and see if it jogs his memory.
 
He will. Is afraid to create an account for some reason.

He saw Angel too but no bbbj or anything that would be a risk.
 
Let's grow up a little here boys, I don't think you should be dropping names of these girls on here as ones who might have given bur friend the clap. We are adults, and if u don't want to risk getting anything don't go to see a girl who does bbbj or pussy slides etc. If your worried about catching something wrap it up, these girl will not protest to you using protection(they would probably be thrilled )
Plus who know who else your buddy has been fucking around with. Tell him to get meds and play safe in the future. Putting up several girls names like some suspect line at the police station is childish.
 
Let's grow up a little here boys, I don't think you should be dropping names of these girls on here as ones who might have given bur friend the clap. We are adults, and if u don't want to risk getting anything don't go to see a girl who does bbbj or pussy slides etc. If your worried about catching something wrap it up, these girl will not protest to you using protection(they would probably be thrilled )
Plus who know who else your buddy has been fucking around with. Tell him to get meds and play safe in the future. Putting up several girls names like some suspect line at the police station is childish.
You're right,just overreacted
 
Warnings are meaningless. It is impossible to ascertain if it is a guy trying to fuck with a girl's business or if the girl, is indeed, passing an sti.

This is the internet. Most things aren't true.
 
What you say might be right but I would like to know more.

There's no way, with the bbbjs and everything no one got anything. Even if he got it from someone else he exposed these girls. They need to know to get checked too.

His list with service (no more Lynda - was before his clean test):
- Alexis - bbbjcim fs
- Amie - bbbjcim fs
- Angel - bs and he only - no risk I think
- Candy - bbbj
- Evelyn - bbbjcim fs
- Katie - bbbj fs
- Nina - bbbj fs
- Tracy - bbbj
- Zoey - bbbj fs

Your choice what to take of this. I would want to know and went to get tested yesterday myself. I would want the girls to get tested and clean too if they were doing the above...
 
What you say might be right but I would like to know more.

There's no way, with the bbbjs and everything no one got anything. Even if he got it from someone else he exposed these girls. They need to know to get checked too.

His list with service (no more Lynda - was before his clean test):
- Alexis - bbbjcim fs
- Amie - bbbjcim fs
- Angel - bs and he only - no risk I think
- Candy - bbbj
- Evelyn - bbbjcim fs
- Katie - bbbj fs
- Nina - bbbj fs
- Tracy - bbbj
- Zoey - bbbj fs

Your choice what to take of this. I would want to know and went to get tested yesterday myself. I would want the girls to get tested and clean too if they were doing the above...

So let me get this straight 'your friend' sees all of these girls in a two week span and does unsafe acts with all of them . So he could have got something his first visit and decided to not get tested and and passed to each of the girls and now is crying like a bitch and blaming these girls . Dude this is the sex biz. Stop causing a scare...we all know that girls do extras there, out of demand. In life we make choices, he didn't need to do this with any of the girls he sounds like an addict that is not safe. If he was a real man he would go to each one of these girls and tell them that he has the clap and they should be tested instead of trying to shame them here.
 
Last edited:
So let me get this straight 'your friend' sees all of these girls in a two week span and does unsafe acts with all of them . So he could have got something his first visit and decided to not get tested and and passed to each of the girls and now is crying like a bitch and blaming these girls . Dude this is the sex biz. Stop causing a scare...we all know that girls do extras there, out of demand. In life we make choices, he didn't need to do this with any of the girls he sounds like an addict that is not safe. If he was a real man he would go to each one of these girls and tell them that he has the clap and they should be tested instead of trying to shame them here.

He did not see them over two weeks. After receiving that other email, he mentioned he found out he got it two weeks ago. That's when the results came in.

He saw these girls since he was last tested, like 3 months ago or something. And his last test was clean.

Somewhere in between he got it.

Point is not shaming. Point is to warn people to get tested if theyve done unsafe things with these girls and also warn the girls. He's too worried to tell all of them directly and does not know how to tell public health or whoever how to contact them.

If he got it from not them they may have still got it from him.
 
What you say might be right but I would like to know more.

There's no way, with the bbbjs and everything no one got anything. Even if he got it from someone else he exposed these girls. They need to know to get checked too.

His list with service (no more Lynda - was before his clean test):
- Alexis - bbbjcim fs
- Amie - bbbjcim fs
- Angel - bs and he only - no risk I think
- Candy - bbbj
- Evelyn - bbbjcim fs
- Katie - bbbj fs
- Nina - bbbj fs
- Tracy - bbbj
- Zoey - bbbj fs

Your choice what to take of this. I would want to know and went to get tested yesterday myself. I would want the girls to get tested and clean too if they were doing the above...

Was your friend covered for the fs? If he was, how are these fs listings even relevant? What's unsafe about covered fs?
 
Was your friend covered for the fs? If he was, how are these fs listings even relevant?

Says he was always covered for fs. Doesn't remember any breakage or condom falling off. Relevant for context of higher mileage --> greater risk? Better to know than not know. He was told no sexual contact (with or without condoms) until after 7 days of medication, so there must be a reason.
 
Condom is supposed to be safe and massively lower risk. Meanwhile reason why bbbj is so prevalent is because it's supposedly significantly safer than bbfs. What is the comparative risk of getting infected via a bbbj?
 
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    ๐—ง๐—›๐—จ๐—ฅ๐—ฆ๐——๐—”๐—ฌ๐—”๐—ง ๐€ ๐’๐๐€: Fox, Coco & ๐—ฏ๐—ฒ๐˜€๐˜ ๐—บ๐—ฎ๐˜€๐˜€๐—ฎ๐—ด๐—ฒ ๐—ฅ๐—ฎ๐—ฐ๐—ต๐—ฒ๐—น[/color] ๐Ÿ…ฐ๏ธ๐€ ๐’๐๐€๐Ÿ…ฐ๏ธ, 28 South Unionville Ave, Unit 5, Markham. ๐Ÿ…ฐ๏ธ๐—–๐—ฎ๐—น๐—น ๐Ÿฒ๐Ÿฐ๐Ÿณ-๐Ÿณ๐Ÿฎ๐Ÿต-๐Ÿฒ๐Ÿฒ๐Ÿฌ๐Ÿฒ ๐—ผ๐—ฟ ๐˜๐—ฒ๐˜…๐˜ ๐Ÿฒ๐Ÿฐ๐Ÿณ-๐Ÿด๐Ÿฏ๐Ÿต-๐Ÿฑ๐Ÿต๐Ÿฒ๐Ÿฒ๐Ÿ…ฐ๏ธ FOX is 26 years old with 34Cโ€™s, stands 164Cm tall and weighs 54Kg. Fox is very friendly and can provide a great girlfriend experience.
  26. HolidaySpa:
    Thursday at ๐ŸŒด๐Ÿ˜Ž๐ŸŒ…๐“—๐“ธ๐“ต๐“ฒ๐“ญ๐“ช๐”‚ ๐“ข๐“น๐“ช๐ŸŒ…๐Ÿ˜Ž๐ŸŒด3517 Kennedy Rd, Unit 4, Scarborough โ˜Ž๏ธ๐Ÿฐ๐Ÿฏ๐Ÿณ-๐Ÿฎ๐Ÿฐ๐Ÿณ-๐Ÿญ๐Ÿญ๐Ÿต๐Ÿตโ˜Ž๏ธCindy & Jenny. Cindy is a slim & incredibly sexy lady with a smile that will melt your heart, & an ass that will fire up your spirit. Her services are among the best! Jenny has a medium build, nicely curved with a slim waist, pretty face, and very flexible skills. Jenny will make you very happy.
  27. ForeverWarden:
    Thursday at ๐Ÿซฆโค๏ธ๐Ÿ”ด๐ŸŸฅโ™พ๏ธ๐“•๐“ž๐“ก๐“”๐“ฅ๐“”๐“ก ๐“ข๐“Ÿ๐“โ™พ๏ธ๐ŸŸฅ๐Ÿ”ดโค๏ธ๐Ÿซฆ๐Ÿซฆ2190 Warden Ave, Unit 201, Scarborough ๐Ÿฐ๐Ÿญ๐Ÿฒ-๐Ÿด๐Ÿฌ๐Ÿฌ-๐Ÿณ๐Ÿด๐Ÿด๐Ÿณ: Cindy, Sofia & Tracy. Cindy is a slim beauty, 5โ€™4โ€, natural C Cups & wonderfully long nipples. Her massage is nice, her bbbj will drive you wild & her cfs finish is a dream come true. Sophia is a sweet & pretty Chinese lady with natural B Cups and an awe-inspiring smooth rounded ass.
  28. Endless Joy Spa:
    โœจโœจโœจโœจโœจ[GRAND OPENING]โœจโœจโœจโœจโœจ ๐Ÿ’žEndless Joy Spa๐Ÿ’ž ๐ŸŽ‡ (155 East Beaver Creek Rd Unit #8, Richmond Hill) 416-731-8565๐ŸŽ‡10am-2am, Young Sexy Curvy Latina Karen, New First Day Sexy Chinese Miumiu, Young Sexy CBC Rachel. Slim Sexy Chinese Kiki, Tall Slim Sexy Chinese Kelly, Young Sexy Chinese Abie.
  29. Lulu1980:
    Phoenix Blossom spa We have 3 beautiful young girls working today, young and lovely new girl Vicy and Jenny Specialising in table shower body scrub massages and offering deep massages Cici๐Ÿค—๐Ÿค—๐Ÿค—๐Ÿค—5124 Dundas St W Etobicoke Please call โ˜Ž๏ธ416-817-3366 to book and Walk in the back door there is plenty of parking available๐Ÿ‘๐Ÿ‘๐Ÿ‘๐Ÿ‘๐Ÿ‘
  30. admin:
    No spamming shoutbox allowed
  31. do you speak English:
    I go for massages 3 times a week and places like bmr should be banned a total rip off mu only mistake was i should of left after bee when the management rips you off then the employees follow and the low life promoters do not want the truth to be heard so i am blocked
  32. do you speak English:
    This spa only likes the fake reviews
  33. do you speak English:
    O am a customer not working with any spa if you do not want real reviews please ban me on this site i hate rip off places
  34. Social-Misfit:
    do you speak tardnick, they blocked u cause yawl full of shit as usual
  35. do you speak English:
    Stay away from bmr spa atotal rip offthey blocked me to avoid the truth about the place a total rip off
  36. Moon203:
    MoonMoon spa/416 887 8801/8131Yonge st #203 young hot CBC 36F big boobs in today &Good service Cuban girl Mimi in Thursday
  37. do you speak English:
    Is this just service
  38. Jennyโ€™s Spa:
    ๐ŸŽ‰๐Ÿ’JENNYโ€™S SPA๐ŸŽ‰๐Ÿ’ โœ…5170 DUNDAS STREET WESTโœ… ๐Ÿ‘ŒETOBICOKE ONTARIO M9A 1C4๐Ÿ‘Œ โ˜Ž๏ธ(647-893-5196)โ˜Ž๏ธCall or Text โ˜Ž๏ธ(437-888-3759)โ˜Ž๏ธCall Only (ETOBICOKE) OPEN 10am to 9pm MONDAY to SUNDAY ๐Ÿ”ฅโœ…GRAND OPENING๐Ÿ’ฏNEW GIRLS EVERYDAY๐Ÿ”ฅEXCELLENT MASSAGE + SERVICE QUEENS NOW AVAILABLE AT JENNYโ€™S SPA FOR ALL YOUR MASSAGE AND SPECIAL EXTRA NEEDS๐Ÿ”ฅ๐Ÿ’ฏ๐Ÿ˜˜๐Ÿ”ฅโค๏ธ๐Ÿ‘Œ ๐Ÿ”ฅTWO BEAUTIFUL NEW YOUNG ASIAN GIRLS EVERYDAY๐Ÿ”ฅ ๐Ÿ’ฏREAL PICTURES OF ATTENDANTS๐Ÿ’ฏ ๐Ÿ”ฅTODAYโ€™s ROSTER INCLUDES: Jenny๐Ÿ˜˜ - An exotic tall and slim Vietnamese
  39. SugarLoveSpa:
    Wednesday at Sugar Love Spa: Jennifer & Lulu. 1270 Finch Ave W (at Keele St), Unit 18. North York, ON โ˜Ž 437-365-2688 โ˜Ž HANA(9pm-5am) is a slim, sexy & very liberal Mexican lady with incredible services. JENNIFER is new today. Details to follow... LULU is also new today. Details later... TIFFANY is an amazing slim petite doll with natural 34C melons, slim waist
  40. KSpa:
    WEDNESDAY at ๐Š ๐’๐๐€: ANA, CINDY, KELLY & SUKI. Unit B6-4227 Sheppard Ave East Scarborough, ON (Just East of Midland Ave) โ˜Ž๏ธ ๐Ÿฒ๐Ÿฐ๐Ÿณ-๐Ÿณ๐Ÿต๐Ÿฎ-๐Ÿณ๐Ÿฑ๐Ÿฒ๐Ÿด โ˜Ž๏ธ ANA is a pretty lady standing 5โ€™4โ€ & weighing 115 Lbs, with 36C melons and a very sexy body. CINDY is slim & pretty with a 5โ€™3โ€ sexy body, big boobs 34D, and a nice curvy bum. Cindy can relax all your cares with her massage and great services.
  41. SpringGreen.:
    Spring Green Spa - 72 Gerrard St W. 2/Fl - 647-891-0699Today we have 5 girls on wednesday๏ผš New Polish gir gigi๐Ÿ’‹๐Ÿ’‹angel- Tanned Spanish beauty with large melons and a fun booty too Wendy- exotic goddess with a gymnasts body and corresponding flexibility CiCi- Exotic beauty with great service and...
  42. Sparkling Spa:
    โšก๏ธ๐ŸŒŸSPARKLING SPAโšก๏ธ๐ŸŒŸ โœ…50 Lockridge Ave Unit 8โœ… ๐Ÿ‘ŒMarkham, ON L3R 8X4๐Ÿ‘Œ โ˜Ž๏ธ(905) 604-8186 Spa Land Lineโ˜Ž๏ธ โ˜Ž๏ธ(437) 446-6688 NEW Spa Cell Phoneโ˜Ž๏ธ (West of Warden & 16th Ave) OPEN 10am to 9pm MONDAY to SUNDAY ๐Ÿ”ฅโœ…NEW MANAGEMENT๐Ÿ’ฏNEW GIRLS๐Ÿ”ฅSUPERSTAR SERVICE QUEENS AVAILABLE AT SPARKLING SPA FOR ALL YOUR MASSAGE AND SPECIAL EXTRA NEEDS๐Ÿ”ฅ๐Ÿ’ฏ๐Ÿ˜˜๐Ÿ”ฅโค๏ธ๐Ÿ‘Œ ๐Ÿ”ฅSEXY NEW YOUNG GIRLS ALWAYS WORKING - Todayโ€™s Schedule isโ€ฆ๐Ÿ”ฅ Zoe - ๐Ÿ”ฅStunning Tall Taiwanese Service Queen with Endless Passion and Sensuality who Wa
  43. Birchmount&14th:
    WEDNESDAY at ๐๐ˆ๐‘๐‚๐‡๐Œ๐Ž๐”๐๐“ & ๐Ÿ๐Ÿ’๐ญ๐ก: JESSIE & YUKI. Birchmount Rd & 14th Ave., Markham, ON. Call or Text for details and appointment. โ˜Ž๏ธ ๐Ÿฐ๐Ÿฏ๐Ÿณ-๐Ÿฎ๐Ÿต๐Ÿณ-๐Ÿฒ๐Ÿฏ๐Ÿณ๐Ÿฐ โ˜Ž๏ธ ๐—๐—˜๐—ฆ๐—ฆ๐—œ๐—˜ is a slim and very lovely Asian girl with massage skills of the highest degree. ๐—ฌ๐—จ๐—ž๐—œ is here today to provide an amazing professional massage. We are open 24 Hours daily. We have clean rooms and plenty of free parking.
  44. ASPA:
    ๐—ช๐—˜๐——๐—ก๐—˜๐—ฆ๐——๐—”๐—ฌ at ๐€ ๐’๐๐€: Amy, Coco & ๐—ฏ๐—ฒ๐˜€๐˜ ๐—บ๐—ฎ๐˜€๐˜€๐—ฎ๐—ด๐—ฒ ๐—ฅ๐—ฎ๐—ฐ๐—ต๐—ฒ๐—น ๐Ÿ…ฐ๏ธ๐€ ๐’๐๐€๐Ÿ…ฐ๏ธ, 28 South Unionville Ave, Unit 5, Markham. ๐Ÿ…ฐ๏ธ๐—–๐—ฎ๐—น๐—น ๐Ÿฒ๐Ÿฐ๐Ÿณ-๐Ÿณ๐Ÿฎ๐Ÿต-๐Ÿฒ๐Ÿฒ๐Ÿฌ๐Ÿฒ ๐—ผ๐—ฟ ๐˜๐—ฒ๐˜…๐˜ ๐Ÿฒ๐Ÿฐ๐Ÿณ-๐Ÿด๐Ÿฏ๐Ÿต-๐Ÿฑ๐Ÿต๐Ÿฒ๐Ÿฒ๐Ÿ…ฐ๏ธ AMY is young and very friendly, standing 158 Cms. with 34C Cups and a very nice bum. Amy is a very popular student, young, sexy, and open minded. She is in demand for her good massage
  45. SunriseRH:
    WEDNESDAY at ๐—ฆ๐—จ๐—ก๐—ฅ๐—œ๐—ฆ๐—˜ ๐—ฆ๐—ฃ๐—”: MICHELLE, RIYA & NEW GIRL YOYO. 10 East Wilmot St, Unit 27, Richmond Hill, on โ˜Ž๏ธ ๐Ÿฒ๐Ÿฐ๐Ÿณ-๐Ÿฏ๐Ÿฎ๐Ÿฑ-๐Ÿด๐Ÿฌ๐Ÿด๐Ÿฒ โ˜Ž๏ธ MICHELLE is a young, curvaceous beauty, 5โ€™2โ€ & 130Lbs, 37DDD-31-41, a trim waist, and a nice butt. Come and be pampered. RIYA is a dynamic black lady with nice D Cups, responsive nipples, and a curvy ass. She knows all the tricks.
  46. NewOriental:
    WEDNESDAY at ๐Ÿ๐Ÿ’š๐—ก๐—˜๐—ช ๐—ข๐—ฅ๐—œ๐—˜๐—ก๐—ง๐—”๐—Ÿ ๐—ฆ๐—ฃ๐—”๐Ÿ’š๐Ÿ: HAPPY & VIVIAN. 10 East Wilmot St, Unit 26, Richmond Hill, on โ˜Ž๏ธ ๐Ÿฒ๐Ÿฐ๐Ÿณ-๐Ÿฏ๐Ÿด๐Ÿญ-๐Ÿฎ๐Ÿฒ๐Ÿด๐Ÿด โ˜Ž๏ธ HAPPY is a slim & busty Korean lady with great massage skills & lots of extra fun. VIVIAN is a pretty & very sexy Chinese doll, standing 5โ€™7โ€ tall, with a slim figure. Vivian is very friendly and versatile.
  47. Annie Spa:
    ๐ŸŽ‰๐Ÿ’ANNIE SPA๐ŸŽ‰๐Ÿ’ โœ…7-1001 SANDHURST CIRCLEโœ… ๐Ÿ‘ŒSCARBOROUGH ON M1V 1Z6๐Ÿ‘Œ โ˜Ž๏ธ(647) 891-9688โ˜Ž๏ธ โ˜Ž๏ธ(416) 291-8879โ˜Ž๏ธ (FINCH & MCCOWAN) OPEN 10am to 9pm MONDAY to SUNDAY ๐Ÿ”ฅโœ…NEW MANAGEMENT๐Ÿ’ฏNEW GIRLS๐Ÿ”ฅ๐Ÿ”ฅ ๐Ÿ”ฅGORGEOUS NEW YOUNG ASIAN GIRLS - TODAYโ€™s ROSTER INCLUDES: ๐Ÿ”ฅ Angel ๐Ÿ’• Very beautiful girl from Taiwan, very curvy, young and sexy, she can provide a great massage and wonderful touch and super service. Angel is so sexy, especially her 34C breasts and her big juicy tight bum you can worship and ador
  48. HolidaySpa:
    Wednesday at ๐ŸŒด๐Ÿ˜Ž๐ŸŒ…๐“—๐“ธ๐“ต๐“ฒ๐“ญ๐“ช๐”‚ ๐“ข๐“น๐“ช๐ŸŒ…๐Ÿ˜Ž๐ŸŒด3517 Kennedy Rd, Unit 4, Scarborough โ˜Ž๏ธ๐Ÿฐ๐Ÿฏ๐Ÿณ-๐Ÿฎ๐Ÿฐ๐Ÿณ-๐Ÿญ๐Ÿญ๐Ÿต๐Ÿตโ˜Ž๏ธCindy, Kelly & Kiki. Cindy is a slim & incredibly sexy lady with a smile that will melt your heart, & an ass that will fire up your spirit. Her services are among the best! Kelly is slim and attractive with very slight curves, all natural coconuts, a nice bum, and rockinโ€™ services.
  49. Red Rose Spa:
    ๐ŸŒธ We have 5 hot brown girls today ๐ŸŒธMALIYA, RAVEN, NINA, PAOLA, ANGEL, AAVI, PAYAL PEARL, SANA, KIRAN๐ŸŒธ 2588 Birchmount ๐ŸŒธ 2 Invergordon ๐ŸŒธ 647-702-8800 ๐ŸŒธ Please visit for a great erotic massage
  50. ForeverWarden:
    Wednesday at ๐Ÿซฆโค๏ธ๐Ÿ”ด๐ŸŸฅโ™พ๏ธ๐“•๐“ž๐“ก๐“”๐“ฅ๐“”๐“ก ๐“ข๐“Ÿ๐“โ™พ๏ธ๐ŸŸฅ๐Ÿ”ดโค๏ธ๐Ÿซฆ2190 Warden Ave, Unit 201, Scarborough ๐Ÿฐ๐Ÿญ๐Ÿฒ-๐Ÿด๐Ÿฌ๐Ÿฌ-๐Ÿณ๐Ÿด๐Ÿด๐Ÿณ: Bella, Cindy & Sasa. Bella is around 5โ€™3โ€ with a thin to medium build, C Cups, and a pleasing personality. She can offer dfk, bbbj and cfs as well as a good massage experience. Cindy is a slim beauty, 5โ€™4โ€, natural C Cups & wonderfully long nipples. Her massage is nice, her bbbj will drive you wild
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