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What is/isn't off limits with an MPA?

Cat_possum

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I'm pretty new to this and was wondering what is or isn't off limits regarding MPA's. I know you can touch their tits and most of their body, but what about their kitty's. Are they usually in play or is it like a Strip Club, where you can usually touch from the waist up only? I know it may very from place to place, but what is the general rule? I'd feel kind of akward asking "Can a touch your pussy?" Am looking to go to a more reputable message place like SRM or Plats. Thanks.
 
Don't be so quick to assume, lest some MPA rips your balls off.

Keep your hands to yourself unless and until she invites you to explore. Build a rapport with the MPA and you'll discover where her individual limits are. And always remember her limits might not be the same as the next MPA you see, there is no definitive rule that applies across the board.

Happy hobbying!
 
Ditto Bloblaw.

They are all different and certainly don't go in expecting the moon on your 1st visit.

I have had everything from the lady moving far away if my hand brushed her calves to full service at massage places in Toronto. You just have to be patient and willing to make repeated visits.
 
Pay the price, get the extras... Forget the build rapport thing to touch.... you dont need 10 visits to make your self out to be a good guy to touch some mpa's tit. If you cant touch, dont tip, move on to next storefront..... Forget this build rappoort stuff., unless your a sucker or complete moron who needs make himself feel better for going to a mpa, the girls are there for one reason, to make money... not give massages.
 
I think this is the 3rd (or 4th) time I have seen this question or a variation thereof in the past 3 months. Is there a sudden influx of MP newbies?

During my 3 "research" visits to MP's, I actually asked what is permissible and I think every time the MPA jumped to the wrong conclusion that I was undercover. Why would LE even care what goes on between consenting adults behind closed doors?
 
I'm not that experienced with MPA's but I always start off in "neutral" territory with dancers and then slowly and gently move towards my objective. It has happened on more than one occasion when the dancer grabbed my hand and put it right on top of the intended target because I was moving too slow.
 
Remember the golden rule. It is not what you want, it is not what the MPA wants, it is what the LAW allows. The LAW couldn't give a rat's ass what you two consenting adults agree to do, the LAW decides, not you and not her. The LAW controls our bodies.
 
I will answer your question with a quote from a Zen Buddhist.

"Everything and nothing."
 
They probably already know that we are all deprived crazed perverts but some are more civilized than others.
 
Im gonna add some MPA-ness to your list






Takes one to know one!!
 
I have a line with MPAs which I always use the first time I see one. I say, "If I do anything you don't like, tell me and I will stop. On the other hand if I do something you like, tell me and I will keep on doing it." That invariably gets a smile, often a laugh, occasionally an explicit don't do this that or the other, but more often the session then just proceeds without the MPA having set any limits and with me feeling able to go forward doing what ever I want until and unless halted.

Mind you, the comment I most often get from MPAs is that they like me as a client because I am a gentleman who does not push the limits, which makes me wonder if I am too "gentlemanly". Hmmm!
 
Almost all of them let you touch their kittys on the outside.
 
There are several solid answers so far, but the real answer is that it all depends. One visit can be completely different than another, even with the same girl.
Touching the boobs and snapper are really kind of high schoolish don't you think? You can close your eyes and twist your own nipple and it feels just like hers.
Go for some creative kink that doesn't violate her space or the law. Have her take her panties off and stuff them in your mouth. Have her spit on your cock or in your face. I think that her spitting in my mouth is very close to DFKing and even more exciting.
Looking but not touching goes a long way. Ask her if she can make her anus wink. Ask her to prove that her snapper is all pink inside - but just look.
Ask her to tell you in detail about her last lesbian experience, or about her last gangbang. Or about any sex scene you want to hear about. The better MPA's all have the stories right on the tip of their tongue.
My whole point is that there is a lot more available than just groping your local MPA, all well within standard MP limits and the law.
My personal preference is that I like to lick their nylons, but I rarely get to do it on the first visit.
 
Now THATS what Im talkin' about!!! I love an open-minded client! Cheers to you!
 
Shoutbox
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    SUNDAY at ๐Ÿ๐Ÿ’š๐—ก๐—˜๐—ช ๐—ข๐—ฅ๐—œ๐—˜๐—ก๐—ง๐—”๐—Ÿ ๐—ฆ๐—ฃ๐—”๐Ÿ’š๐Ÿ: HAPPY, PHOENIX & LULU. 10 East Wilmot St, Unit 26, Richmond Hill, on โ˜Ž๏ธ ๐Ÿฒ๐Ÿฐ๐Ÿณ-๐Ÿฏ๐Ÿด๐Ÿญ-๐Ÿฎ๐Ÿฒ๐Ÿด๐Ÿด โ˜Ž๏ธ HAPPY is a slim Korean lady with great massage skills & lots of extra fun. PHOENIX is a gentle sweet Filipina lady, 5โ€™4โ€ and 105Lbs, with 34C-24-34 assets and very open minded. LULU is a friendly and very sexy Vietnamese girl
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  22. SunriseRH:
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  24. NewOriental:
    SATURDAY at ๐Ÿ๐Ÿ’š๐—ก๐—˜๐—ช ๐—ข๐—ฅ๐—œ๐—˜๐—ก๐—ง๐—”๐—Ÿ ๐—ฆ๐—ฃ๐—”๐Ÿ’š๐Ÿ: HAPPY, LULU, MICHELLE & PHOENIX. 10 East Wilmot St, Unit 26, Richmond Hill, on โ˜Ž๏ธ ๐Ÿฒ๐Ÿฐ๐Ÿณ-๐Ÿฏ๐Ÿด๐Ÿญ-๐Ÿฎ๐Ÿฒ๐Ÿด๐Ÿด โ˜Ž๏ธ HAPPY is a slim Korean lady with great massage skills & lots of extra fun. LULU is a friendly and very sexy Vietnamese girl with natural B Cups, and a slim to medium frame. She is a lot of fun, and can be wild at times. MICHELLE is a young,curvy
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  26. Moneylee:
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  27. HolidaySpa:
    Saturday at ๐ŸŒด๐Ÿ˜Ž๐ŸŒ…๐“—๐“ธ๐“ต๐“ฒ๐“ญ๐“ช๐”‚ ๐“ข๐“น๐“ช๐ŸŒ…๐Ÿ˜Ž๐ŸŒด3517 Kennedy Rd, Unit 4, Scarborough โ˜Ž๏ธ๐Ÿฐ๐Ÿฏ๐Ÿณ-๐Ÿฎ๐Ÿฐ๐Ÿณ-๐Ÿญ๐Ÿญ๐Ÿต๐Ÿตโ˜Ž๏ธMAGGIE &* TARA. Maggie is a slim and very sexy Korean lady, very pretty and accommodating. Come and try, you will like. New Girl Tara is a young & pretty Asian girl with big melons and fun services.
  28. ForeverWarden:
    Saturday at ๐Ÿซฆโค๏ธ๐Ÿ”ด๐ŸŸฅโ™พ๏ธ๐“•๐“ž๐“ก๐“”๐“ฅ๐“”๐“ก ๐“ข๐“Ÿ๐“โ™พ๏ธ๐ŸŸฅ๐Ÿ”ดโค๏ธ๐Ÿซฆ 2190 Warden Ave, Unit 201, Scarborough ๐Ÿฐ๐Ÿญ๐Ÿฒ-๐Ÿด๐Ÿฌ๐Ÿฌ-๐Ÿณ๐Ÿด๐Ÿด๐Ÿณ: Cindy, Misaki & Tracy, Cindy is a slim beauty, 5โ€™4โ€, natural C Cups & wonderfully long nipples. Her massage is nice, her bbbj will drive you wild & her cfs finish is a dream come true. Misaki is a young and beautiful real Japanese girl with natural 34DD Cups and a great body. She is open to bbbj, dfk and cfs
  29. Dreaminn:
    SATURDAY[ at ๐Ÿ’ญ๐——๐—ฅ๐—˜๐—”๐—  ๐—œ๐—ก๐—ก ๐—ช๐—˜๐—Ÿ๐—Ÿ๐—ก๐—˜๐—ฆ๐—ฆ ๐—ฆ๐—ฃ๐—”๐Ÿ’ญ: AMY & MIMI. 10225 Yonge St (North of Major Mackenzie), Richmond Hill, ON โ˜Ž๏ธ ๐Ÿฒ๐Ÿฐ๐Ÿณ-๐Ÿด๐Ÿฎ๐Ÿต-๐Ÿฎ๐Ÿต๐Ÿด๐Ÿฏ โ˜Ž๏ธ AMY is a sweet and friendly Chinese vixen, 158Cms, 115Lbs, with C Cups and very willing to please. MIMI is a cute young Asian lady with a medium build,167Cms, 110Lbs, D Cups & very open minded services.
  30. bnwellness_wilson:
    Blue Nile Wellness Center, we have 4 young girls are working today, young new sweet Yoyo 36 DD with curve body and young cute student Sophia, pretty fun Lina and cute GFE Ella are providing deep tissue and sensual massage. Pls call 416-3985777 book appointment and walk in always welcome, back entrance and parking available. 350 Wilson Ave North York
  31. Jennyโ€™s Spa:
    ๐ŸŽ‰๐Ÿ’JENNYโ€™S SPA๐ŸŽ‰๐Ÿ’ โœ…5170 DUNDAS STREET WESTโœ… ๐Ÿ‘ŒETOBICOKE ONTARIO M9A 1C4๐Ÿ‘Œ โ˜Ž๏ธ(647-893-5196)โ˜Ž๏ธCall or Text โ˜Ž๏ธ(437-888-3759)โ˜Ž๏ธCall Only (ETOBICOKE) OPEN 10am to 9pm MONDAY to SUNDAY ๐Ÿ”ฅโœ…GRAND OPENING๐Ÿ’ฏNEW GIRLS EVERYDAY๐Ÿ”ฅEXCELLENT MASSAGE + SERVICE QUEENS NOW AVAILABLE AT JENNYโ€™S SPA FOR ALL YOUR MASSAGE AND SPECIAL EXTRA NEEDS๐Ÿ”ฅ๐Ÿ’ฏ๐Ÿ˜˜๐Ÿ”ฅโค๏ธ๐Ÿ‘Œ ๐Ÿ”ฅTWO BEAUTIFUL NEW YOUNG ASIAN GIRLS EVERYDAY๐Ÿ”ฅREAL PICTURES OF ATTENDANTS๐Ÿ’ฏ๐Ÿ’ฏ๐Ÿ’ฏ - TODAYโ€™s ROSTER INCLUDES: ๐Ÿ”ฅ Apple๐Ÿ˜˜ - Brand new girl from Taiwan just a
  32. Annie Spa:
    ๐ŸŽ‰๐Ÿ’ANNIE SPA๐ŸŽ‰๐Ÿ’ โœ…7-1001 SANDHURST CIRCLEโœ… ๐Ÿ‘ŒSCARBOROUGH ON M1V 1Z6๐Ÿ‘Œ โ˜Ž๏ธ(437) 818-8896โ˜Ž๏ธ โ˜Ž๏ธ(416) 291-8879โ˜Ž๏ธ (FINCH & MCCOWAN) OPEN 10am to 9pm MONDAY to SUNDAY ๐Ÿ”ฅโœ…NEW MANAGEMENT๐Ÿ’ฏNEW GIRLS๐Ÿ”ฅ๐Ÿ”ฅ ๐Ÿ”ฅGORGEOUS NEW YOUNG ASIAN GIRLS - TODAYโ€™s ROSTER INCLUDES: ๐Ÿ”ฅ Ivy โค๏ธ is new girl in our branch, shy and sweet but also very vocal and needy, she demands your happiness and satisfaction. Slim body, supple soft breasts with long nipples and a toned bum bum will have you intoxicated by Ivyโ€™s good looks
  33. Lulu1980:
    Phoenix blossom Spa โ™จ๏ธโ™จ๏ธโ™จ๏ธtable shower body scrub ๐ŸŒน๐ŸŒน๐ŸŒน๐Ÿ”ฅ๐Ÿ”ฅ๐Ÿ”ฅAngela and Tiffany sexy body ๐Ÿคช๐Ÿคชbig boobs Round and plump buttocks Round and plump buttocks๐Ÿ˜ต๐Ÿ˜ต๐Ÿ˜ต๐Ÿ˜ต๐Ÿ˜ตhot body slide for you ๐Ÿ˜œ๐Ÿ˜œ๐Ÿ˜œ๐Ÿ˜œ๐Ÿ˜œ๐Ÿ˜œ5124 Dundas St W Etobicoke โ˜Ž๏ธ416-817-3366
  34. bumika.vashi:
    (((เค†เคชเค•เฅ‹ เคฌเคฟเคจเคพ เคจเคพเคŸเค• เคฏเคพ เคจเค–เคฐเฅ‡ เค•เคฐเคจเฅ‡ เคตเคพเคฒเคพ เคธเคฐเฅเคตเคฟเคธ เคšเคพเคนเฅ‡ เคคเฅ‹เคน เคฏเคพเคฆ เค•เคฐเคจเคพ. ))) If you want Service without Drama or Tantrums, Remember it. Will Try To Give You The Best Possible Sweating Experience With Full Company. TAKE MY WORD.?? Don't Waste Your Time And Money In Some Other Place Where You are Really Upset Loosing Out Both Money And Fun. Ok Try With Our Girls Once Then Your Visit Will Be Regular To Me.... _________________N O T E_________________ If u like my services Please Please Do not forget to
  35. Red Rose Spa:
    ๐ŸŒธ We have 5 hot brown girls today ๐ŸŒธ CHASIDY, LUCY, PAOLA, AMANDA, MAY, KIRAN, NISHA, ANGEL ๐ŸŒธ 2588 Birchmount ๐ŸŒธ 2 Invergordon ๐ŸŒธ 647-702-8800 ๐ŸŒธ Please visit for a great erotic massage
  36. Turnernator1:
    blair
  37. SpringGreen.:
    Spring Green Spa - 72 Gerrard St W. 2/Fl - 647-891-0699Today we have 5 girls on Friday๏ผšNew jap tina ๐Ÿ’‹๐Ÿ’‹ :heart4 Diana - Tanned Spanish beauty with large melons and a fun booty too Wendy- exotic goddess with a gymnasts body and corresponding flexibility CiCi- Exotic beauty with great service and...
  38. Sparkling Spa:
    ๐Ÿ“ฃ๐Ÿ“ฃ50 LOCKRIDGE AVE UNIT 8!! INTERNATIONAL GIRLS FOR A VARIETY OF APPETITES!!!๐Ÿ“ฃ๐Ÿ“ฃ END YOUR WEEK ๐Ÿ†๐Ÿ‘๐Ÿ’ง๐Ÿ’งWITH A WILD TIME WITH๐ŸŽŒ๐ŸŽŒ JAPANESE CHANEL๐ŸŽŒ๐ŸŽŒ & ๐Ÿ‡ญ๐Ÿ‡ฐTAIWANESE ZOE ๐Ÿ‡ญ๐Ÿ‡ฐ905-604-8186!!!
  39. Endless Joy Spa:
    โœจโœจโœจโœจโœจ[GRAND OPENING]โœจโœจโœจโœจโœจ ๐Ÿ’žEndless Joy Spa๐Ÿ’ž ๐ŸŽ‡ (155 East Beaver Creek Rd Unit #8, Richmond Hill) 416-731-8565๐ŸŽ‡10am-2am,New First Day Young Slim Sexy Thai Girl Janice, Slim Sexy Chinese Kiki,Tall Slim Sexy Chinese Kelly, Young Sexy Chinese Abie.
  40. Jennyโ€™s Spa:
    ๐ŸŽ‰๐Ÿ’JENNYโ€™S SPA๐ŸŽ‰๐Ÿ’ โœ…5170 DUNDAS STREET WESTโœ… ๐Ÿ‘ŒETOBICOKE ONTARIO M9A 1C4๐Ÿ‘Œ โ˜Ž๏ธ(647-893-5196)โ˜Ž๏ธCall or Text โ˜Ž๏ธ(437-888-3759)โ˜Ž๏ธCall Only (ETOBICOKE) OPEN 10am to 9pm MONDAY to SUNDAY ๐Ÿ”ฅโœ…GRAND OPENING๐Ÿ’ฏNEW GIRLS EVERYDAY๐Ÿ”ฅEXCELLENT MASSAGE + SERVICE QUEENS NOW AVAILABLE AT JENNYโ€™S SPA FOR ALL YOUR MASSAGE AND SPECIAL EXTRA NEEDS๐Ÿ”ฅ๐Ÿ’ฏ๐Ÿ˜˜๐Ÿ”ฅโค๏ธ๐Ÿ‘Œ ๐Ÿ”ฅTWO BEAUTIFUL NEW YOUNG ASIAN GIRLS EVERYDAY๐Ÿ”ฅREAL PICTURES OF ATTENDANTS๐Ÿ’ฏ๐Ÿ’ฏ๐Ÿ’ฏ - TODAYโ€™s ROSTER INCLUDES: ๐Ÿ”ฅ Anna๐Ÿ˜˜- A stunning sexy girl from Hong Kong
  41. Annie Spa:
    ๐ŸŽ‰๐Ÿ’ANNIE SPA๐ŸŽ‰๐Ÿ’ โœ…7-1001 SANDHURST CIRCLEโœ… ๐Ÿ‘ŒSCARBOROUGH ON M1V 1Z6๐Ÿ‘Œ โ˜Ž๏ธ(437) 818-8896โ˜Ž๏ธ โ˜Ž๏ธ(416) 291-8879โ˜Ž๏ธ (FINCH & MCCOWAN) OPEN 10am to 9pm MONDAY to SUNDAY ๐Ÿ”ฅโœ…NEW MANAGEMENT๐Ÿ’ฏNEW GIRLS๐Ÿ”ฅ๐Ÿ”ฅ ๐Ÿ”ฅGORGEOUS NEW YOUNG ASIAN GIRLS - TODAYโ€™s ROSTER INCLUDES: ๐Ÿ”ฅ Bella ๐Ÿ˜˜ is a beautiful Vietnamese busty girl, very sexy, with RMT style massage and very good playful service. So friendly, and nice. Summer โค๏ธ has nice sexy body, and nice breasts. She can give very good massage and fun service. Very s
  42. Moneylee:
    All season wellness center : New Young girl big breasted beautiful buttocks charming temperament big boobs Michelle,young girl pretty face nice figure Thai deep massage Aad,Young girl big breasted beautiful buttocks charming temperament big boobs Yoyo,Young girl Big breasted saucy naughty Ella ,Enchanting sexy petite deep massage Sherry ๐Ÿ address: #5-30 Rambler dr Brampton ,Ontario L6W 1E2โ˜Ž๏ธ4376655510 ๐Ÿ‘„๐Ÿ‘„๐Ÿฆต๐Ÿฆต๐Ÿˆต๏ธ๐Ÿˆต๏ธ๐Ÿ‘…๐Ÿ‘…
  43. Moneylee:
    Full season wellness center: New Young girl big breasted beautiful buttocks charming temperament big boobs Cici , Young girl pretty face big boobs nice figure deep massage Jessica , young girl pretty face nice figure Thai deep massage Linda,Young beautiful face sexy body and good deep massage Maggie,Enchanting sexy petite deep massage Mary . ๐Ÿ  2560 Shepard Ave Mississauga unit 1 โ˜Ž๏ธ 4379857899 ๐Ÿฆต๐Ÿฆต๐Ÿ‘…๐Ÿ‘…๐Ÿˆต๏ธ๐Ÿˆต๏ธ๐Ÿ‘„๐Ÿ‘„
  44. SunriseRH:
    FRIDAY at SUNRISE SPA: MICHELLE, LULU & SUMMER. 10 East Wilmot St, Unit 27, Richmond Hill, on โ˜Ž๏ธ 647-325-8086 โ˜Ž๏ธ HELEN is a young, slim & very sexy Vietnamese lady. She not only looks good, she IS good. LULU is a friendly and very sexy Vietnamese girl. She is a lot of fun, and can be wild at times. SUMMER is a sweet Asian babe, 5โ€™3โ€ with a captivating 36D-28-39 figure
  45. NewOriental:
    FRIDAY at ๐Ÿ๐Ÿ’šNEW ORIENTAL SPA๐Ÿ’š๐Ÿ: HAPPY, HELEN & PHOENIX. 10 East Wilmot St, Unit 26, Richmond Hill, on โ˜Ž๏ธ 647-381-2688 โ˜Ž๏ธ HAPPY is a slim Korean lady with great massage skills & lots of extra fun. HELEN is a young, slim & very sexy Vietnamese lady. She not only looks good, she IS good. PHOENIX is a gentle sweet Filipina lady, 5โ€™4โ€ and 105Lbs, with 34C-24-34 assets
  46. aaro_991:
    Athens ga
  47. ASPA:
    ๐—™๐—ฅ๐—œ๐——๐—”๐—ฌ ๐—ฎ๐˜ ๐—” ๐—ฆ๐—ฃ๐—”: ๐—”๐—บ๐˜† & ๐—ฏ๐—ฒ๐˜€๐˜ ๐—บ๐—ฎ๐˜€๐˜€๐—ฎ๐—ด๐—ฒ ๐—ฅ๐—ฎ๐—ฐ๐—ต๐—ฒ๐—น ๐Ÿ…ฐ๏ธ๐€ ๐’๐๐€๐Ÿ…ฐ๏ธ, 28 South Unionville Ave, Unit 5, Markham. ๐Ÿ…ฐ๏ธ๐—–๐—ฎ๐—น๐—น ๐Ÿฒ๐Ÿฐ๐Ÿณ-๐Ÿณ๐Ÿฎ๐Ÿต-๐Ÿฒ๐Ÿฒ๐Ÿฌ๐Ÿฒ ๐—ผ๐—ฟ ๐˜๐—ฒ๐˜…๐˜ ๐Ÿฒ๐Ÿฐ๐Ÿณ-๐Ÿด๐Ÿฏ๐Ÿต-๐Ÿฑ๐Ÿต๐Ÿฒ๐Ÿฒ๐Ÿ…ฐ๏ธ AMY is young and very friendly, standing 158 Cms. with 34C Cups and a very nice bum. Amy is a very popular student, young, sexy, and open minded. She is in demand for her good massage and...
  48. Dreaminn:
    FRIDAY at ๐Ÿ’ญ๐——๐—ฅ๐—˜๐—”๐—  ๐—œ๐—ก๐—ก ๐—ช๐—˜๐—Ÿ๐—Ÿ๐—ก๐—˜๐—ฆ๐—ฆ ๐—ฆ๐—ฃ๐—”๐Ÿ’ญ: KELLY, LULU & VIVI. 10225 Yonge St (North of Major Mackenzie), Richmond Hill, ON โ˜Ž๏ธ ๐Ÿฒ๐Ÿฐ๐Ÿณ-๐Ÿด๐Ÿฎ๐Ÿต-๐Ÿฎ๐Ÿต๐Ÿด๐Ÿฏ โ˜Ž๏ธ KELLY is a young & pretty Asian girl, very slim model figure, 5โ€™3โ€ with unreal bbbj skills & very liberal services. LULU is a very popular & well known Chinese attendant from another spa, very slim and beautiful with 34C Cups and incredible services..
  49. HolidaySpa:
    Friday at ๐ŸŒด๐Ÿ˜Ž๐ŸŒ…๐“—๐“ธ๐“ต๐“ฒ๐“ญ๐“ช๐”‚ ๐“ข๐“น๐“ช๐ŸŒ…๐Ÿ˜Ž๐ŸŒด3517 Kennedy Rd, Unit 4, Scarborough โ˜Ž๏ธ๐Ÿฐ๐Ÿฏ๐Ÿณ-๐Ÿฎ๐Ÿฐ๐Ÿณ-๐Ÿญ๐Ÿญ๐Ÿต๐Ÿตโ˜Ž๏ธCindy & Lina Cindy is a slim & incredibly sexy lady with a smile that will melt your heart, & an ass that will fire up your spirit. Her services are among the best! Lina is very well known for her great services and her impressive shapely ass. Come and see why! You will be glad you did.
  50. ForeverWarden:
    Friday at ๐Ÿซฆโค๏ธ๐Ÿ”ด๐ŸŸฅโ™พ๏ธ๐“•๐“ž๐“ก๐“”๐“ฅ๐“”๐“ก ๐“ข๐“Ÿ๐“โ™พ๏ธ๐ŸŸฅ๐Ÿ”ดโค๏ธ๐Ÿซฆ 2190 Warden Ave, Unit 201, Scarborough ๐Ÿฐ๐Ÿญ๐Ÿฒ-๐Ÿด๐Ÿฌ๐Ÿฌ-๐Ÿณ๐Ÿด๐Ÿด๐Ÿณ: Cindy, Mia, Nana & Sasa. Cindy is a slim beauty, 5โ€™4โ€, natural C Cups & wonderfully long nipples. Her massage is nice, her bbbj will drive you wild & her cfs finish is a dream come true. Mia is a Caribbean service queen temptress with incredible curves. She can bbbj like a queen, & is open to dfk & cfs.
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