Reviews, Reasons & Districts

[josh k]

I remind you that if you wanted to fight the restrictive bylaws and what the bylaw officers are doing that in the Ontario Superior Court of Justice Pimenoca et al vs the City of Brampton case, Opinion released 5/14/04, Court File No 02-BN06171 found that:

The Brampton bylaw unreasonably restricting hours of operation was ordered quashed.

The Brampton bylaw that outlawed nudity was quashed.

The Brampton bylaw that limited sexual/genital contact was quashed.

The opinion of the Court was clear. Bylaws can not regulate what is already regulated by the Canadian Criminal Code. That is not the purpose of licensing bylaws.

The opinion specifically pointed out that under the bylaw a adult body rub could take a license away from one act of "sex" at a body rub that is witnessed by a bylaw officer. This exceeds the limitations of the Criminal Code of Canada where the keeping of a bawdy house can only be charged if police can PROVE "frequent and habitual" sexual contact.

The Court was very clear that bylaws can not restrict or regulate what is a criminal vs licensing issue. That is not within the whelm of bylaws.

Licensing bylaws CAN limit the number of establishments in the City. However the bylaw that limited the transferability of existing licenses was quashed. Businesses have the right to transfer their licenses as part of a sale of the businesses.

Someone can correct me if wrong but I do not believe the City of Brampton appealed the finding. Hopefully this case can be used as a precedent for at least other cases in Ontario. Of course it may be costly to fight but it seems that the Vaughn bylaws could be easily defeated if they are really as restrictive as the bylaw officer implies.

 

[Distinguished Gentleman]

Dave,

Sometimes its not worth it. Vaughan has some of the tightest bylaws governing MP's in Ontario and several other cities and towns are now copying those bylaws. There are only 4 licensed MP's in Vaughan and its very expensive to mount a court challenge.

Perhaps the massageplanet.netites would consider establishing a "challenge" fund.

 

[Niofania F]

Yes, back in the day. Nowadays many haven't learnt the lessons of the past. I keep anonymous almost 100%, I say that because there are a small few who know and they are sworn to secrecy.

INDN_LVR is a very honest man, I have met him in person and he is down with the best of them. With him giving out his handle was a honest mistake, one that he has learned.

I believe that the best way to resolve this would be for some of us who do write reviews and partake of the lovely services that the MPA at HFH provide is to write the reviews in a format that is acceptable. That way both members and HFH are satisfied.

I know that many shy away from a new MPA given no reviews and these Bylaws are strict. But if we all wish to get the desired benefit from this relationship we will have to work together.

VBB

 

[none]

If what Dave says is true, this may be worth looking into. HFH may be doing fine under the current conditions (i.e. advertising and hours restrictions, price and nudity ban) but don't they deserve to be playing on an even playing field? I'm sure if they could even open for an extra two hours per day (i.e. closing time of midnight instead of 10pm), it would affect their bottom line in a big way. For Kayla is paying the same rent and other fixed costs regardless of the number of hours she opens her business. As well, it would be good for those of us who have day jobs and cannot go hobbying during the day.

Sheik,

Good idea, there. massageplanet.net should do some kind of fundraiser to raise some funds for this cause. But first, we should get an estimate to see what the legal fees will be approximately. It may be pointless if we're talking six figures here.

It would be a sad day if Kayla ever said "f*ck it" with Vaughn. Think about it a little.

 

[Laser Girl]

BOOOOO!

 

[Cydney]

My sentiments exactly.

 

[Craig]

then I don't think a review has to be explicit for the s to hit the f at HFH or any other Woodbrige spa. If we are here comparing HFH to IT,Allure, SRM, etc., then doesn't that say it all.

After all, we're not here to talk about the massage we had at out RMTs.

 

[nikkidavis26]

Good point that the court said they can't make a body rub close any earlier than any other adult entertainment business.

The Brampton law got changed since 4 MP's got together and hired an attorney. I assume the Complaint and all the arguments are public. Would seem far less expensive to duplicate this "landmark" case at far less cost. Or use the same attorney. As long as its in Ontario would seem the liklihood of success would be high.

I think HFH and other clubs would get far more business without the bylaw issue. I enjoyed HFH and IT on one trip years ago, but decided to avoid in the future simply because of their city issues vs Brampton or especially Mississauga with such a friendly bylaw situation. It may even be an argument that the bylaws created a extreme competitive disadvantage... not to mention the restrictive bylaws may not be legal in the first place as when Brampton tried to make them more restrictive and they were quashed by the Court.

 

[Bethany]

It's sad that it's come to this Paul, but "passive aggressive" tactics are the Canadian way.

Government simply erects enough roadblocks hoping that clients and MP owners will "throw in the towel" so to speak.

They put YOU in a position where you must go on the offensive in order to stay in business, spending money in the process.

... and how many business have capital for a prolonged war of attrition ?

As my lawyer once told me:

"Principle costs Principal"

 

[Where is my vote!!!!!]

Well yes, as a matter of fact I HAVE posted negative reviews of SRM MPA's.

I don't come out and say: "Hi, I'm INDN_LOVER", during the first massage but I've gone into a couple of 1st sessions where the girls have said to me:

"I think I know who you are. You usually see XXXX don't you ?"

Fortunately it's been with MPA's who are highly rated anyway, so I don't know how much my session was "skewed"...

Really, the problem only exists for me at SRM, and maybe a little at Utopia where I've seen a few girls.

If I walked into IT Paul, you'd have NO idea who I am, and certainly at this point I don't think I'd be announcing it !!!

 

[dashanyaos]

But a massageplanet.net reviewer can have the power to swing the decision of another member. If the reviewer is well known and trusted by many others then that review can have a lasting effect.

Those who abuse the power of anonymity, do so for their own benefit. Those that don't do so for the sake of the community.

VBB

 

[waffles]

Yeah, but figurehead... there is always a price to doing business... but what is the cost if you lose the legal battle? For MP's... it means loosing a license

 

[ERR0R]

figurehead, please reduce the size of your sig picture to a max of 150 by 150, thank you.

 

[mckenziecalhoun]

Good point.

If HFH has not lost any business due to the non-review policy invoked several months ago then why bother taking a risk by reversing that decision? What is there to be gained?

By allowing members to post safe reviews, the possibility of revealing questionable activities does exist and poses a unwarranted risk for the spa.

 

[CANUK]

The policy has not changed since the very first review was posted of someone getting a pearl necklace. That mpa was informed that she could no longer work in Vaughan and has since left the business I believe.

Vaughan is very strict with those who have licenses to operate there. Those that dont have a license are targetted with harassment and fines.

Vaughan's bylaw prohibits the ladies from being nude, something that is permitted in the very next town. Instead the ladies have to wear clothes concealing their flesh. Thats why they wear shear robes or clothes.

The town of Vaughan is determined to eliminate massage parlours and thats why they are so hard on Kayla.

massageplanet.net respects the bylaws and will not tolerate discussion of activities that are deemed illegal in that town simply for the reason that it affects the mp's in a negative way. Vaughan started enforcing certain by laws such as recording drivers licenses or id's in order to shut down the licensed places by "scaring away" the customers.

Mississauga has its own funny rules. Nudity is permitted but at least one pair of feet must remain on the floor at all times. Brampton tried to outlaw massage parlours and it got overturned by the courts as being illegal.

So its a funny area to do business in. So lets not make Kayla have to listen to the local LE complaining about what he sees on massageplanet.net.

 

[tiggermom1218]

Paul should just have the girls from HFH work a shift or two at IT and then everyone can review them based on their IT visit.

 

[Blazin_luvv]

Bro,

Check your PM's.

 

[Amii...x]

If you do a search back a while ago, there used to be a time that when a new girl started work at HFH, no one questioned whether she would be good or not - they knew if they worked here - they were good. It wasn't always true, I mean sometimes the girl took some time to work out the little things, but guys felt assured that if they had a bad session or if they were cut short, etc, they could turn to me and I would try to rectify it. It was funny actually, because there were a few girl's who came to work here who came with bad reputations and they turned around. Guy's would say, 'if she still works for Kayla, we know she has changed.'

When I had to enforce the no review policy - I had not asked for 'no reviews'.. I had explained to the moderation team here at massageplanet.net, that the reviews must be edited in order to remove 'NR', 'BS', 'Release', etc. At the time, there were many reviews being posted on HFH so the moderation team would have to take the extra time to go through every review to check it. I told them if they decided it was easier to delete them, go ahead - I had no choice. At the time I still had MBB running - my own review site. Verybadboy remembers the slander thrown at me on the boards because I would allow HFH reviews to be posted on MBB. Guys were suggesting that 'Kayla is trying to steal traffic from massageplanet.net'... and 'Kayla can delete the bad reviews and keep only the good'... etc. Why did I allow them on MBB instead? Simple. I could edit them there to remove the NR, BS, etc myself. No one minded because I would pm the guy and tell him what I removed and why. There wasn't a problem.

I closed down my board for lack of time. I didn't visit massageplanet.net as much mainly because I became tired of the politics. Because of that, I lost a lot of communication with my clients and friends. Some of the new members of massageplanet.net have no idea who I am anymore. I wasn't hearing from my clients as much as I would like to and I was finding out about girl's shorting sessions for example... after it was out of control. Many of the reviewers that I knew and grew friendships with disappeared - Hannibal... Old Teacher.. etc. A whole new crop of guys came on board suddenly with only 20 posts or less, making accusations towards me or HFH. Where these guys came from I have no idea. Accuse me if indeed I am wrong and I will openly admit to it and appologize - I have before - I'm probably one of the very few people on this board that will tell you honestly, bluntly and without filter exactly how I feel. I've been known to say things that many others want to say but don't have the courage to post - like some of the things I've said in this thread. But this bullshit that was being pumped out of new members was too much. I found myself getting angry and when I would post, I didn't say much at all because I was afraid that other's didn't see the justification for my anger. Someone told me once, 'out of 100 members on massageplanet.net, there are only about actually 30 guys - they use different handles.' ..............................

 

[1saintofGod]

...................I used to be known as 'pro-hobbyist' because I always believed that the customer is right. Every guy deserves good treatment unless he hurts, abuses or is too aggressive towards a girl. Regardless of race, colour, size, etc. A guy off of the street that walks into a spa that has never saw a review board should get the SAME treatment as someone who is known as a reviewer. I have said this before, 'if the girl knows that you are a reviewer, it will no doubt affect her service - good or bad.' One of the girl's that worked for me in the past is a good example - her session would turn to shit if a guy mentioned the boards or that he 'read about her'. Immediately she felt pressure like she had to 'perform' and at times, she would end the session and ask the guy to leave. So... how is the guy walking in off the street going to get good service if the girl's feel only to service the reviewers well? How can one give an honest review? Would a guy who is known at a spa come on line here and say, 'yes, went to X and I gotta tell you, the session was boring and I won't return to see her again.' Meanwhile, knowing, the next time that he walks into the place, they know exactly who he is, etc? Will the guy feel that his regular MPA will treat him just as well if not better the next time? Even though I have posted countless times here on massageplanet.net that you don't HAVE to spend $260 for an hour here at HFH - guys come back and say, 'well if you don't some of the girl's make you feel like you are cheap, etc, just by the way that they look at you.' So if that is true, how will a girl, who you posted a bad review about, who knows your handle, look at you when you come to see her again? It's obvious.

Do you ever wonder why the girl's that work at HFH don't post on massageplanet.net until or unless they are not with HFH anymore? Remember girls like Alanna, Jenna, etc who began posting on massageplanet.net after they left HFH? Wanna know why? I don't allow it. I tell girl's when they begin working here, 'as long as you work here, I would like you not to post on massageplanet.net because when you do post, you represent HFH - all of us'. Some guys would know simply when a girl has left HFH when they saw her post on massageplanet.net,..lol. I know you may think it unfair that I do that, but I do it because like I said, I am back from when reviews were reviews, when I wouldn't be allowed to post in the Toronto Massage Review section because I own a place, when guys kept review boards a secret and their handles were not discussed. And my other reason is.. if you come to HFH ... and a girl is late getting in the room... most guy's come out and say, 'Kayla, what kind of business do you run there?' It's on my head. My responsibility. And I took that responsibility when I first opened and asked many of the guys here for advice and guidence. Gotta give other places credit who have taken those same business ideas and used them for their benifit. I was one of the first owners, besides Paul, who came here on massageplanet.net and asked YOU... what do you want from a massage, etc, etc. That gave me the responsibility that I have today. I take it. Good with the bad. Now I am re-thinking the no posting policy here at HFH. So that the girl's can have more interaction with you guys. I just haven't decided yet if I want to allow the interaction on massageplanet.net or directly on the HFH web site. I want the interaction so that you guys can get to know a girl more, but I hesitate because as I have said before - I want ALL guys to have good treatment, not just the posters.

There are many new ideas that I have for this year - hopefully they will remain HFH ideas and structure this time cause my old ones have been replicated too much. Shit.. lmao... there was a thread not long ago about another spa having links off of the girl's names on the schedule directly to the girl's own page. The poster said, 'too bad some of the other prominant spas don't follow suit.' I never posted to it, made me laugh. I've had links off of my girl's name on the schedule for two years! I even had little pop up pics of the girl's when you would pass your mouse over the girl's names, but many guys didn't like it so I took it away..................