Question Legit RMT - Markham / Scarborough

[Dotanuki]

I kn

I go exclusively to a legit provider, and I’ll never divulge who she is, or where she works currently.

Keep your girls info to yourself.

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[Foreigner]

Keep your girls info to yourself.

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Exactly

 

[hangul99]

You never know man. Even legit Rmt can be fun and wild inside the room. You don’t know anything about how it goes?

Do you even go to spas?

 

[Pay2Play]

The entire RMT argument is a moot point. Anyone can get the certification. It’s really not that hard. The CMTO has low standards.

if you need proper treatment than check out the education and training of your provider first. Otherwise you can have fun with a community college underachiever.

 

[Dotanuki]

Not as easy as you think. Taking classes now. But like in any profession you have good and mediocre practitioners.

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[xtc27]

...Sunlife worried about fraud, not HE. See below:

https://www.cpacanada.ca/en/news/canada/2019-05-09-benefits-fraud-types

...if yr legit RMT does fun stuffs, u think they care? Service listed = provided on date listed@ locatn listed. Boom. Done.

...as per above... turning benefits into cash 4 yr pocket= fraud...
... if one RMT doing 2 many msg... they think receipt= fake & u split cash w RMT= fraud.

...BUT if u use up yr benefits getting msg fromRMT who ’goes wild in the room’... thats legit & not detectable... unless like an idiot u post here.

...if yr dental hygenist did xtras.... like, cleaned yr teeth, then gave HJ... who’s 2 know?

.... & really they dont care. But u pocket benefits, THEN they care, & u can b fired. Two of my colleagues got canned 4 that.

 

[bbtpongs]

...Sunlife worried about fraud, not HE. See below:

https://www.cpacanada.ca/en/news/canada/2019-05-09-benefits-fraud-types

...if yr legit RMT does fun stuffs, u think they care? Service listed = provided on date listed@ locatn listed. Boom. Done.

The CMTO, however, cares about both fraud and “fun”. Examples can be found at the CMTO website ("Discipline Decisions").

E.g.,
"contravened and/or failed to maintain a standard of practice of the profession by offering to massage the genitalia of a client during massage therapy treatments; contravened and/or failed to maintain a standard of practice of the profession by climbing on top of a client during a massage therapy treatment"

"advertisements contained unprofessional language and/or undignified language and/or sexual innuendo and/or language of a sexual nature."

 

[xtc27]

The CMTO, however, cares about both fraud and “fun”. Examples can be found at the CMTO website ("Discipline Decisions").

E.g.,
"contravened and/or failed to maintain a standard of practice of the profession by offering to massage the genitalia of a client during massage therapy treatments; contravened and/or failed to maintain a standard of practice of the profession by climbing on top of a client during a massage therapy treatment"

"advertisements contained unprofessional language and/or undignified language and/or sexual innuendo and/or language of a sexual nature."

...youre talkin about dudes abusing female clients... not women making men happy...

...abusing women = not fun...looked through cases, cant find anything about woman doing msg then fun stuffs & prosecution following.

.... provide examples of consensual discreet fun causing CMTO problem... not ads FFS, diff topic......public records right? ....pls provide examples...

 

[bbtpongs]

...youre talkin about dudes abusing female clients... not women making men happy...

...abusing women = not fun...looked through cases, cant find anything about woman doing msg then fun stuffs & prosecution following.

.... provide examples of consensual discreet fun causing CMTO problem... not ads FFS, diff topic......public records right? ....pls provide examples...

You've read through all of the decisions? The first quotation above is from one of the decisions, and was a female RMT.

I absolutely was not talking about "dudes abusing female clients", though there are indeed examples of that (and "dudettes", doing the abusing* as well, e.g., a Ms. Elliott, "sexually abused a client") in the CMTO decisions.

Yes, these are all public records. Here's one for a Ms. Yee,

"from in or around 2016 to in or around 2018, the Registrant provided massage therapy treatmentsover 20 times to Client 1, a person with whom she was involved in a sexual relationship that included sexual intercourse."

(*)Regarding the CMTO's use of the term "Sexual Abuse", note that even the "sexual relationship" above falls under this category in their hearings and decisions.

 

[xtc27]

You've read through all of the decisions? The first quotation above is from one of the decisions, and was a female RMT.

Also, I absolutely was not talking about "dudes abusing female clients", though there are indeed examples of that (and "dudettes", doing the abusing as well) in the CMTO decisions.

...read thru a dozen, then skipped to just look at females... nuthin.

Where’s yr example? ... post link or name... these aren’t secrets... but strangely hard 4me 2 find...

 

[bbtpongs]

...read thru a dozen, then skipped to just look at females... nuthin.

Where’s yr example? ... post link or name... these aren’t secrets... but strangely hard 4me 2 find...

Names were posted, e.g. Ms. Yee (Shirley YEE), but since you're having a hard time, here's a direct link to one, 'cause these aren't secrets.

http://www.cmto.com/assets/Xue-Li-1.pdf

Full details of this case are at 2018 ONCMTO 10 (CanLII) | Ontario (College of Massage Therapists of Ontario) v Li | CanLII

"Following the massage therapy session, the undercover investigator paid for the session and was provided a receipt. The Registrant then indicated to the undercover investigator that “other services” were available. When the undercover investigator asked what the Registrant meant by “other services”, the Registrant replied “hand release”. It is agreed that the Registrant was referring to masturbating the undercover investigator."

 

[xtc27]

Names were posted, e.g. Ms. Yee (Shirley YEE), but since you're having a hard time, here's a direct link to one, 'cause these aren't secrets.

http://www.cmto.com/assets/Xue-Li-1.pdf

...allegation is she massaged her bf... not quite same thing we talking about here...



“Sexual Abuse
3. It is alleged that from in or around 2016 to in or around 2018, the Registrant provided massage therapy treatments over 20 times to Client 1, a person with whom she was involved in a sexual relationship that included sexual intercourse.”

https://www.cmto.com/assets/2020-03-24-Statement-of-Allegations-Yee-Sheryl.pdf

 

[bbtpongs]

...allegation is she massaged her bf... not quite same thing we talking about here...



“Sexual Abuse
3. It is alleged that from in or around 2016 to in or around 2018, the Registrant provided massage therapy treatments over 20 times to Client 1, a person with whom she was involved in a sexual relationship that included sexual intercourse.”

https://www.cmto.com/assets/2020-03-24-Statement-of-Allegations-Yee-Sheryl.pdf

Sigh.

In any event, the link I posted specifically refers to an offer of "hand release". Is that the same thing we're talking about here?

 

[bbtpongs]

2017 ONCMTO 6 (CanLII) | Ontario (College of Massage Therapists of Ontario) v Crystal Emre | CanLII

Access all information related to judgment Ontario (College of Massage Therapists of Ontario) v Crystal Emre, 2017 ONCMTO 6 (CanLII) on CanLII.

www.canlii.org

This one's interesting. Consensual, and no "undercover investigator" involved this time. So who reported it? Spouse picked up the phone?

"The text message exchanges between Client #1 and the Registrant from in or about January 2016 to in or about May 2016 included sexually explicit discussions. "

 

[Foreigner]

This debate misses the point regarding discussion of legit providers in here. If you were to insinuate that you got more than a legit massage from someone, and were to name her or her place of work, the insurance companies would be the least of her headaches. A couple of our “promoters” would make a beeline for her, and would not only try to recruit her for their contracted spas, but would actively try to discredit you with her and would work hard to identify you. All the better to have “power” over both you and her. There could even be threats to turn her in to her regulatory body. I’ve heard of this happening from 2 legit, licensed providers. I was uninvolved except to hear their concerns and the stress it caused.

 

[xtc27]

Sigh.

In any event, the link I posted specifically refers to an offer of "hand release". Is that the same thing we're talking about here?

*heavy aggrieved sigh*

...Hey! It is fun 2 mock other guy instead of reason...

...but just in case some molecule of doubt remains...

1. Your example does not apply pertinent section In bold.
2. Hand release? Not seeing that
3. Sexual abuse of a patient, which included intercourse... not hand release...
4. Girl not guilty yet anyway; this one pending

More details needed about abuse... was guy disabled? still, 1 guy, 1 girl, and somehow frequency & other evidence...

...dude, not the same thing...

...If my dick is in girls mouth, pussy, or hand, that is “proper use” not abuse...

...schoolteacher kissing student= abuse... kissing the dad? That’s ok.

 

[bbtpongs]

*heavy aggrieved sigh*

...Hey! It is fun 2 mock other guy instead of reason...

...but just in case some molecule of doubt remains...

1. Your example does not apply pertinent section In bold.
2. Hand release? Not seeing that
3. Sexual abuse of a patient, which included intercourse... not hand release...
4. Girl not guilty yet anyway; this one pending

More details needed about abuse... was guy disabled? still, 1 guy, 1 girl, and somehow frequency & other evidence...

...dude, not the same thing...

...If my dick is in girls mouth, pussy, or hand, that is “proper use” not abuse...

...schoolteacher kissing student= abuse... kissing the dad? That’s ok.

<< Following the massage therapy session, the undercover investigator paid for the session and was provided a receipt. The Registrant then indicated to the undercover investigator that “other services” were available. When the undercover investigator asked what the Registrant meant by “other services”, the Registrant replied “hand release”. It is agreed that the Registrant was referring to masturbating the undercover investigator. >>

"In any event, the link I posted specifically refers to an offer of "hand release". Is that the same thing we're talking about here? "

 

[bbtpongs]

<<
Treatment Sessions from December 2015 to March 2016
7. The treatment sessions between in or about December 2015 and in or about March 2016 became increasingly sexualized.
8. During sessions in or about December 2015, the Registrant told Client #1 that he looked really good. The Registrant said this because Client #1 was wearing regular clothing instead of his work uniform. Client #1 told the Registrant that she had "a nice rack" referring to her breasts. 9. In or about February and March 2016, Client #1 and the Registrant discussed explicit sexual activities during treatment sessions, including the Registrant disclosing to Client #1 that she wanted to have sex with him and that she found it difficult to concentrate because she was thinking about sexual activities she would like to do with him. 10. In or about March 2016, on at least one occasion, the Registrant and Client #1 kissed in the treatment room during and/or immediately prior to the start of a treatment session.


Treatment Sessions in April and May 2016
11. In or about April, 2016, during a treatment session, the Registrant and Client #1 had sexual intercourse in the treatment room.
12. During treatment sessions that followed in or about April and/or May 2016, the Registrant and Client #1 kissed. 13. In or about April and May 2016, the Registrant and Client #1 engaged in sexually explicit conversations during treatment sessions. >>


<<11. In or about April, 2016, during a treatment session, the Registrant and Client #1 had sexual intercourse in the treatment room.>>

<<14. The text message exchanges between Client #1 and the Registrant from in or about January 2016 to in or about May 2016 included sexually explicit discussions.
15. On or about May 2016, Client #1 sent the Registrant a picture of his penis via text message. The Registrant replied that she was watching pornography and thinking about Client #1. >>

<<Counsel for the College submitted that the proposed penalty was mandatory in light of the findings of frank sexual abuse and pursuant to section 51(5) of the Health Professions Procedural Code. Counsel reminded the panel that there is no discretion in these types of cases. >>

<<A. THE DISCIPLINE COMMITTEE FINDS that the Registrant has committed acts of professional misconduct pursuant to s. 51(1)(b.1) of the Health Professions Procedural Code (the "Code"), being Schedule 2 to the Regulated Health Professions Act, 1991, and pursuant to s.51(1)(c) of the Code, particularly paragraph 6 (contravening a standard of the profession) paragraph 8 (abusing a client, verbally or physically), paragraph 44 (engaging in conduct or performing an act, relevant to the practise of the profession, that, having regard to all the circumstances, would reasonably be regarded by members as disgraceful, dishonourable or unprofessional), and paragraph 49 (conduct unbecoming) of section 26 of Ontario Regulation 544/94 made under the Massage Therapy Act, 1991,5.0. 1991, c. 27. >>

2017 ONCMTO 6 (CanLII) | Ontario (College of Massage Therapists of Ontario) v Crystal Emre | CanLII

Access all information related to judgment Ontario (College of Massage Therapists of Ontario) v Crystal Emre, 2017 ONCMTO 6 (CanLII) on CanLII.

www.canlii.org

 

[bbtpongs]

Law Document English View

Welcome to the new e-Laws. It’s now easier than ever to find Ontario laws. We welcome your feedback.

www.ontario.ca

<< Sexual abuse of a patient
(3) In this Code,
“sexual abuse” of a patient by a member means,
(a) sexual intercourse or other forms of physical sexual relations between the member and the patient,
(b) touching, of a sexual nature, of the patient by the member, or
(c) behaviour or remarks of a sexual nature by the member towards the patient. 1993, c. 37, s. 4.>>

... in case some molecule of doubt ...

 

[xtc27]

Law Document English View

Welcome to the new e-Laws. It’s now easier than ever to find Ontario laws. We welcome your feedback.

www.ontario.ca

<< Sexual abuse of a patient
(3) In this Code,
“sexual abuse” of a patient by a member means,
(a) sexual intercourse or other forms of physical sexual relations between the member and the patient,
(b) touching, of a sexual nature, of the patient by the member, or
(c) behaviour or remarks of a sexual nature by the member towards the patient. 1993, c. 37, s. 4.>>

... in case some molecule of doubt ...

...agree w u here, this = most similar to fun enjoyed w RMTs & lucky dudes

...one caught by client evidence... other one backdating receipts & undercover cop... why we never discuss lucky finds...

...pg 1 this thread, talking about dudes risk of ins fraud, say if we claim RMT msg on proper date & location... risk if my legit RMT gives extra services... risk 2 me!

...so far, not seeing how fun w RMT... or dentist or bicycle repair girl (she is hot BTW)... threatens my ins claim...

...& can’t see how RMT needs 2 worry if her prosecution relies on client evidence... text messages on burner app... bye... & my testimony? not gonna happen....

...agree tho, RMT risks losing her license, your examples = clear

...may seem cruel & selfcentred, but much as I luv the girls... only interested about my claim being denied &accusations of fraud... there is no fraud... was msg by this RMT @ this spa @ this time... & something else happened...

..also fucked my optometrist, still filed legit claim 4 glasses she sold me...& they paid. No guilt