I have a situation.......

[ipnez]

Not sure this belongs in this category but that's where it's going.I could really use some input and suggestions with this please.  I'll try to make it as short as possible with as much detail as I can.I rent a suite in an office building.  I have 2 treatment rooms, one I use the other is empty.  I really love that the space/business is mine.  I do what I want, when I want and I don't have to worry about people messing with my stuff.  Well, just recently I've been considering renting out the space to someone else.  Figured it might be nice to have my rent at $325 instead of $650.  So, I talked to a girl who is almost done with school.  She came to me to ask if she could work on me as one of her "professionals" as part of her school work.  Of course I said YES! (i'm no dummy)Well, we chatted a bit and I really like her.  She's good at what she does and has a nice personality.  SO, I mentioned that I don't use the room and talked about her possibly moving in.  She was very excited at the idea.  She came back 4 days later (yes, to give me another massage...I know, spoiled spoiled spoiled)  and we chatted a bit more.  So today we met again to talk about some further details and I asked her what her expectations were financially.  I was trying to get an idea of her outlook and what she was looking to accomplish and whatnot.Well, this is where I could use some help.  She stated that she needed/expected/predicted that she'd make $4,000 a month.  I almost hit the floor.  Now, keep in mind that I really, really like her.  The 1st thing that popped in my head is that this is not a figure that is realistic for a massage therapist to be bringing in fresh out of school.  I voiced this concern to her and she assured me that she was willing to work hard and do whatever it took to make sure that she'd be busy.  (ok, she didn't mean WHATEVER it took...she wasn't making that reference...just thought i'd clear that up)I told her that would mean roughly 20 clients a week on AVERAGE.  An average of 20 clients a week fresh out of school with no client base at all.  (I'm not sure how much she will spend on advertising but I think her plan was more pounding pavement than spending $$)I'm concerned for her and these expectations.  Now I'm having second thoughts about having her work with me.  I'm still building my practice as well and I'm not sure I want to be with someone who is ....well, I don't even know.  I just don't think that it's reasonable to expect it to happen the way she thinks it does.  Not that it couldn't but what are the odds?  I mean really, what are the odds of being that busy any time in the not so distant future?  Like I said, I chatted with her a bit about my concerns about how tough it really is but she just continued to say that she needed to make it happen...so it would just have to happen....I'm confused.  Like I said, I really like her...personality and talents.  I just don't know if she'd fit it my environment of what I've created.  I don't want to work with someone (she wouldn't be working for me...she'd just be renting space) who HAS to make the money.  I think if I rent the space out I'd want to work with someone who worked because they wanted to or that they needed to but that the money isn't a huge concern.  Keep in mind that I don't have any trouble making my rent.  I thought it would be nice to have someone else working there so that we could offer couples massage or same time appointments.  I can't say that I'm in the position to worry about someone else's business.  I tend to do this (you know what I mean?) and I have my own business to be worried about and that's plenty.Any thoughts?  Suggestions?  Input?  Ideas?  Thank you so much for taking the time to read.  I really don't know what to do now.  We've pretty much discussed her moving in.  I guess it's not a done deal but I think she would be really disappointed if I told her I changed my mind.  I don't want her to think that I was "pulling her chain" or jerking her around.  I do want her to be successful because I think she does have talent and she's really nice.   :-/

 

[Bride2be]

I have a situation.......

Well, this is where I could use some help.  She stated that she needed/expected/predicted that she'd make $4,000 a month.  I almost hit the floor.   :-/

I made about half that amount, $2,000. a month, from my first month 8 years ago, when I got out of massage school and finally got licensed.

Some do more. Some do less.

I put money and time  into the best  ways of advertising

(Probably $200. the first month).

and just went for it in my own business, renting an office ($320. a month with a $20 yearly increase in rent) and etceteras.

The odds are good that if she is a good a person as you think she is - she really ought to be successful, right from the start. (Or, at least, sort of.)  :-/

Maybe, realistically she will start out at only half that amount she forsees her first few months or, years.

Reality will set in soon enough and it can be a good way to grow.

Maybe it will be quite a learning experience for the both of you. Everybody thinks they can do better than they really can. I thought I'd start earning $40,000. my first year when it was about half that amount. I would have no problem asking her for $325 a month rent if that is her confidence level and you are comfortable with that.

 

[Agent99]

It doesn't sound like that much of a situation - she has expectations, but it doesn't sound like she is expecting you to help her meet those expectations. You've told her it is unrealistic.  There is not much more you can do, she will learn the way every other student that comes out of school expecting to massage a 40hr work week and make thousands and thousands of dollars. I think your concern should be can she manage the rent with other commitments?  Has she got a bit of a financial cushion? We all know she is not going to be working THAT much the day she moves in. It sounds like the problem is you want to get her to understand that it's not going to happen overnight.  It's like telling a girlfriend "He's no good for you, you should stop seeing him!", even if she believes you and KNOWS it's true, she'll still see him, until she is prepared to accept it. Don't worry about her learning the hard facts of massage as a career, if she is around you she will be lucky to have an understanding ear.  Most other people will be thinking "you get $60 (or whatever) an hour! What's the problem??"

 

[Brandi]

I have a situation...

Honestly, I wonder if it was her school that put that in her head...  Since I know definitely that mine did... I graduated in December of 2003, only really started working in April, and have made only $9000 since!!!  They made us believe that we could easily make $50,000 in your first year!  Yeah right!  Maybe my boss does from the money she makes on us... but no way, not me... I wish!!!And for building up your own practice, it takes at least a year to start making money and that is after really looking for clients, spreading the word, spending a lot of money and time advertising.

 

[Unworthy King]

I would think about your needs and wants and see if she fits the bill.  Since you can make the rent without her, you don't really NEED her as a renter.  Would be nice to cut the rent in half....and the other nice things that would come along with her there.  How would you feel if she realized her expectations were a little high and was forced to move out?  If she NEEDS $4,000 a month to meet her at home expenses and they are not going to be met with massage, she'll most likely have to go with another option.  IF that option were to be that she leaves your space, how will you feel?Your rent sounds pretty reasonable to me.  I'd be jumping at it if I were her.  Having the opportunity to share a space (not be alone) and also having an experienced person next to me to learn from is an awesome combination.  If you like her and think she'll be successful......maybe not her $4,000 a month successful....but that she does have promise and you think she'll be responsible and pay the rent on time, then why not help her out.....give her a place to do massage? I'd be a little interested in exactly why she needs $4,000 a month though.  If she absolutely NEEDS it to pay the rent, then most likely she'll be paying for her apartment and food before she pays you.  How will you feel if she's behind on the rent?  Here's another option.  You could consider having her pay on a "per usage" basis for the first few months.  That way, there is no set obligation for her.  If she doesn't do enough massages to make the $320 in rent, then she only pays for the time she uses the room.  You could put a ceiling of $320 on it so she doesn't end up paying $600 in rent.  So, if it's $20 to use the room each time, and she only has 10 massages during the month.....she has paid only $200.  You're $200 ahead of where you were last month and she also still gets to keep some of her money so she can build her practice.  I know it's a lot more effort to collect the $$ each day she uses the room, but at least this way you can be assured you'll get your money, so it's a win for you.  If your intent is to just rent the room, get your $320 and not worry about it, then I'm not so sure she's your gal.  And yes......why is it that these massage schools all seem to be lacking a bit when it comes to teaching business?  Certainly, when they are trying to woo you to come to the school, they want to make it sound like you'll be earning $65 an hour.  Meanwhile, you're thinking "$65 times 40 hours?  Let me get my calculator!  I think I can afford that boat now!"  Of course, once you're in school, you do realize that a 40 hour workweek is unreasonable.  But, they don't really go far enough, in my opinion, of pointing out the harsh realities of making it in the world of massage.  I've learned so much more about the business aspects of massage from on line message boards!

 

[Cat Litter Man]

I have a situation.......

I so totally agree with you kneededmassage!!! I've learned a ton more on this site since getting out of school. Hoewever, the base of knowlede gained in school made it possible for me to even understand half of what I read about here. :I agree that if you are afraid of becoming emotionally attached to her financial needs that this may not be your deal. Even I agree that $4,000 a month is an unreasonable expectation for the first year  or at all (thanks by the way, for your responce to my situation in the other thread). :-*I personally feel that if you want to do her a favor and the rent isn't THAT important (don't tell her that by the way or she may be inclined to walk all over the situation) then collecting per usage sounds ideal for both of you. I would love that in my current situation ;DBest of luck  :-*

 

[you will never know]

I have a situation.......

Hmm....maybe this is an opportunity for you to learn another side of business. You stated that you're the type of person that will allow yourself to get involved emotionally with her situation (i.e., worrying about her business along with yours).Here's the chance for you to teach yourself to separate yourself from her business goals. We all have our own and as long as you concentrate on achieving yours, let others worry about making theirs. There's nothing wrong from time to time in providing her some advice/input on this or that if she asks for it. She may also have the motto of "reach for the sun and moon; if you get halfway there, you're still a lot further ahead then if you hadn't reached for the extreme." I think there's nothing wrong with having that kind of drive and maybe down the road, she will definitely hit her financial goal. Regardless if she does or not, don't let it affect you and your business. I think she will learn from watching you and seeing how well you do and how far you've come that reality will ground her but she should keep reaching for her goal anyway (and not give up). I would suggest setting up a month-to-month contract with her (at least at the start of this whole thing). When you sit down with her and discuss the contract, I would emphatically state that this is a black and white agreement and neither of you are responsible for one another's clients/marketing/financial issues/etc. Certainly express excitement for her and wish her well (not saying you should go in there w/ a cold business-like manner). But to CYA, I would repeat that this is a business agreement and nothing else (personal likes or dislikes for one another are not involved). I'm actually in the process of trying to share a rental space with another colleague. I'm excited about it and hope it works out. Be well,Jen

 

[MelanieT]

I have a situation.......

A lot of good advice has been given so I won't repeat it all here. I'll raise a couple of additional points.Is the $4,000/month gross or net. She'll have a lot more expenses than just renting the space.Have her install her own phone or use an existing cellphone. Her own line will remove any possible understandings regarding using your phone to schedule her clients. If she uses your phone and nothing is said up front, any prospective client that calls up (new or recurring) could be viewed as open game. So I would suggest that you have her get her own phone.Supplies Obviously, bottles of lotion/oil, sheets, etc., do not grow on a massage therapist tree. She needs to supply her own materials.Maintenance you'll also have to come to an understanding on who is responsible for cleaning her space, sheets, etc.These are just some of the logistical things that came to mind - there are a number of others, as well.***My school has been very forthcoming with regards to earning potential. Almost from day one, all the instructors have expressed their support for our plans with the caveat that a 40 hr week is not likely nor advisable. They've estimated the average week will probably be between 15 - 20 - 25 1 hr massages (if that - and only after you've built up your clientele).

 

[Adelle]

I have a situation.......

I would have to agree at the sad state of reality-based business education in most massage programs.Not only does this lead to unrealistic expectations and disappointment, but it also creates considerable aneforum.xxxonism between therapists and employers. Too many students think every massage is worth $X (whatever figure the instructors put in their head) and anything short of that, you are getting screwed by someone profiting off your hard work.When you combine the expectations/disappointment with the aversion to working for someone else, is it any wonder the average career of a fulltime massage therapist is two years, according to AMTA?The only ones who seem to win are the schools. $6K at a time, and career turnover/burnout only works to their advaneforum.xxxe.

 

[over 9000]

I have a situation.......

Supplies Obviously, bottles of lotion/oil, sheets, etc., do not grow on a massage therapist tree.

NO MASSAGE THERAPIST TREE?  And I've been on a search!!!  DARN!

I agree with the phone advice.......great idea!

 

[Pack Leader- Go Pitbulls!]

I have a situation.......

I have to agree with those mentioning the lack of business education in the schools.   I just looked up the average (median) full time massage income from the AMTA.  It is $20,000 to $29,000 a year.  But then goes on to state that 43% earn more then $30,000 annually from their work as massage therapists.   It also states that the income for a part time massage therapist is, on average, under $4,000.  With 24% earning more then $10,000.  What it does not state is if therapist are stating the Gross income or the Net income.So to run with the numbers,  this therapist would have to do 20 massages a week at $48 an hour (national average according to AMTA) for 50 weeks of the year to gross the amount of $4,000 a month.  That is with no overhead at all.  It is possible to make that but to really make that kind of money she will have to increase at least one of the numbers above (more then 20 clients, more then $48 an hour, or more then 50 weeks a year (not much room to increase this one)).  Maybe they should teach a math course in Massage School?   Let students do the formula's and see what is realistic to them.  

 

[Rockford]

I have a situation.......

the big question here is, why does she "need" $4K per month?drug habit? gambling? living extravagantly?sounds hinky to me....

 

[Bobby Cowboy Man]

I say that if you really like her, do it.  Rent her the space, this way you can do couples massage, more of the day of beauty thing, leverage time.  You will have more money with which to advertise/market your business and that will benefit both of you.  mk

 

[max jerry horowits]

This sounds like it could be a wonderful experience.  4k a month right out of school is a bit -- uh -- unreasonable, but she will learn what she is capable and what realistic income is soon enough and there is no reason she can't start working on her goal out of your office.After having my own experience very recently, I would encourage you to consider this very carefully.  It is a really wonderful gift to be able to mentor someone who you obviously like and has talent, if that is what you both want.  It is really important to understand your motivation behind bringing someone else in, even if they are just renting a room.  Take a few minutes and jot down what you really want from renting a room.  (Is it just to help offset costs or will it be nice to have someone else to share the workday with or ???)  Think about what it will be like when you walk in and some of your things are in different places or stacked differently -- will that upset you?  Will she be responsible to help clean the common office areas?   How will you work out the split of couples sessions or will you offer her referrals?   The idea's suggested on per usage -vs- rent is a good idea and so is the advice with the phone.  Maybe offering her a trial period so you can both see how it works might be a good idea.  Good luck and please keep us updated on what you decide.

 

[Kenzie]

Thank you all so very much for the wonderful responses.  I agree and understand so much with every individual response here.  There are a couple of little things that I didn't put in my original post because I figured if she were to read the post I didn't want her to think that I spread around here "issues".  Let me just say that she has 4 kids and will be the provider for herself and her kids.  I'm all for being a go-getter.  I really like that about her.  BUT it's one thing to be a go-getter and it's another to have a lead foot and barrel down anything in front of you to get where you're trying to go.  Do you know what I mean?  I'm not saying this is what she is but some people can turn into that when they realize that the money isn't what they expected.  I've already assumed that I would charge her a per-person fee of a set dollar amount that caps off at 1/2 rent.  Like I stated, I don't need the money.  I'm used to making the rent by myself.  I guess when it all comes down to it I'm concerned for her and I am concerned for me.  I don't want to rent out the space just to have someone move in and realize they hate it and move out.  I really like the idea of having someone who loves doing massage working in my office with me.  Of course everyone needs money.  I wouldn't expect for someone to come in and say, hey I can work for peanuts....I don't mind.  But I also don't want someone who is so interested in making money that it's all they care about.  Thanks again to everyone for all of the wonderful and insightful posts.  I will let you know what happens over the next couple of weeks.  And yes, schools do need to get better about telling the REALITY of what's out there.  Or certainly be a little more realistic.  You can't tell students that they are gonig to make $60 an hour.  That's ridiculous.  It just doesn't work that way.  Thanks again everyone!  You guys are the best!  :-*

 

[Ryde-On]

Hey Tera,If this girl plans on making $4000 her first month, well then, I definetely want to be inside her brain to see what's going on!    I don't know how I would feel about sharing my space with her, on the one hand, it will cut down on your rent but like you said, you want to be sharing your space with someone that is doing it for the right reasons, and isn't overly focused on the monetary aspect.  It's a tough boat that you're in but perhaps have her sign a lease/contract on a month to month basis, that way, if things don't work out and she doesn't become the instant success as she envisions, and things don't work out, neither one is locked in to something....BTW, I called you this morning, hope Chicago was fun!

 

[Aisling M]

I have a situation.......

So, terab, what's happened since your first post here? Have you heard how the girl with unrealistic expectations is doing?

 

[jeremyfairchild]

well, funny you should ask.i decided to let her use the space in my office.  i told her that she could pay me per client for the 1st couple of months and then 1/2 rent after that.  well, the only clients she's been working on have been people I've sent to her.  she hasn't had any of her own. well, she called me the other day to tell me that she got a job in a spa working 4 days a week.  she mentioned that she would like to stay in my office too and that i could schedule appointments for her around her schedule at the spa.  whoaaaaaa. yeah right.  obviously we're going to have to have a chat.  i think her working at the spa is the spa thing for her so i'm glad for her for that.  as far as anything else goes, i'm not sure.  she was only giving me $10 per client and they were people that i sent to her.  so we'll need to make some sort of different arrangement if anything at all.  i guess we'll see.  thanks for asking about the latest news.............

 

[Miss Revenge]

Ouch. Sorry to hear it went That bad. What happened to she's willing to "do whatever it took"? Maybe you can encourage her to do what it takes; tell her some things she can do to get clients.  I wouldn't bank on it though. I've seen several MTs get discouraged and get a job after a couple of months. On the other hand, I was in her shoes. I expected clients to magically appear. I did not want to get a job; so, I changed. And, I got clients. I do okay now.At least you don't absolutely need the money. Good luck handling this situation.

 

[Beckei]

I have a situation.......

I'm sorry....but I'm afraid she has a COMPLETELY naive idea if she thinks you are going to be her secretary/receptionist and book all her massages for her. She either has no idea what she just asked you to do or she's got one heluva nerve (which I think needs to be squashed).Sorry for being so blatant...of course now that I've vented...I would suggest you sit down all nice and wonderful and have that little chat. Ask her to rephrase what it is she wants you to do "FOR HER". Ask her if she plans on paying you on the side separately to be her booker. If she looks incredulous, I'd let her know how you construed what she asked. Could be a complete misunderstanding, eh? SSSSSSSSSSSure hope so.Be well,Jen