"Well Kneaded Massage" - opinions?

[MzTique]

This outfit contacted me today -- http://www.wellkneadedmassage.com   --  apparently a potential client had gone to their website and requested an MT, and this company found me on the ABMP website and called to see if I would see the client on their terms.  I didn't have any openings, but chatted them up about their setup.  They have a set of rates ($95/hr of Swedish, for example) that the MT collects 65% of; they do some marketing for you (I don't know what) and you agree not to re-see the client at your own rates, etc.  Anybody else been contacted by them?

 

[Delacy]

I have never heard of them.Seems that all prices are based on being an outcall massage.Personally I don't do outcall massage, so this wouldn't be something for me.  Sounds interesting though.

 

[alexander m]

"Well Kneaded Massage" - opinions?

$95 should be the norm for an outcall just about anywhere, no need to move.Right off the bat, this company is spending $3 - $4 to process the credit card, another buck or two on phone calls, website advertising and maintenance, etc. Pretty soon, they are making $20 at best to give you a client that pays you over $60. Sounds like a good deal to me!

 

[gregtheripper]

"Well Kneaded Massage" - opinions?

As far as things like that go, I feel that if you are seeing a client that you did no marketing for yourself, and are being handed a client by a source that makes their money by referrals, you should continue going through the referral source. You never would have massaged the client anyway, and you put forth no effort in attracting the client. I feel taking the client and seeing them in your clinic for a lower price is about as ethical as going into a top-notch spa, and offering the same services for a lower price, besically to slap the spa in the face. The client had their choice to begin with, they just seemed to have chosen Well Kneaded Massage instead of the private practitioner.Sorry, I'm in an ill mood today, talking to too many starfish on the phone this morning. Have one on the line right now, in fact! lol

 

[No Bull!]

I did not see "outcall" mentioned in the original post. Am I missing something here?  Or, does the referrel service consider a potential client, an "outcall"? The extra costs are explained to the client?  If not, how do you explain your prices vs the referrel companies?If its acceptable to the client and yourself, I say, go for it.Is it legal to pass on your credit card fees to a client using a referrel service?

 

[~abby~]

"Well Kneaded Massage" - opinions?

WKM's website makes it very clear from the first sentence that the therapist comes to you.My comment about credit card charges was to illustrate that what WKM is making off a referral is a very reasonable amount

 

[b*tch]

"Well Kneaded Massage" - opinions?

The extra costs are explained to the client?  If not, how do you explain your prices vs the referrel companies?

Not sure what you mean here. The therapist would go to the client, representing WKM, not a sole proprietorship. The client would never hear the service menu of the therapist, as the therapist at that point only charges what WKM charges, no more and no less. Not really an extra charge, it's just that the client is paying WKM for the massage, not the therapist.

 

[namy]

"Well Kneaded Massage" - opinions?

What I would have an ethical problem with is that collecting their 65% would equal MORE than my usual rate, so the WKM client would really be paying ME more than my regular clients, referral fee aside.  Any suggestions?

Only suggestion on that part would be not to agree to what WKM is paying you, tell them you would like less money, if that's okay. I'm sure they wouldn't have a problem with it, lol.

That, or accept the pay raise, or increase your outcall fees. Other than that, maybe explain to them that you don't feel comfortable charging that much, they'll have to find another therapist?

 

[Raynee Daiz]

"Well Kneaded Massage" - opinions?

I suppose I will get blasted for this, but no one seems to have raised an eyebrow about WKM stating on their website..."Finding a source of well-trained and reliable massage therapists who will travel to your home or office is difficult. Our Therapists are fully qualified to deliver outstanding therapy and all of us at Well Kneaded Massage will assure you of exceptional treatment and a commitment to remain at the leading edge of training and knowledge"...yet pick their practitioners seemingly at random.They don't know squat about BJB-LMP other than they live in the right city and are an ABMP member.You can also go to their Therapists page and see a picture of some of the Therapists you can request. That always struck me as cheesy at best, asking-for-trouble at worst, their disclaimers notwithstanding.

 

[Jessie]

*lol* I hope there will be a day when Therapists are paid a retainer for being listed with a service, and offered health and retirement benefits. After all, without our work what do these businesses have to offer their clients?Good for you, BJB. All it appears to me, on the surface, is paying $20 per massage for a non compete agreement.  

 

[dnj060]

"Well Kneaded Massage" - opinions?

You hit that on the head.The reason we do not work as an agency or referral service is just that - we aren't one!Anyone can pick up a phone book, google for therapists and then make a dozen calls to find someone who is free.Try interviewing people, outfitting them with supplies, giving them a guaranteed income even when the phone does not ring, comping foul ups/late arrivals and all the other things that come with managing people.

 

[lark]

Hey it's an idea I even batted around for a while(an outcall referral business).There was another graduate from my school who did it and I heard bad things about working with them.Just took a look at the site.  They have a search of therapists in Micronesia and the Mariani Islands....how in the world would they "know" and be able to recommend a MT there?SIGHRobyn

 

[Pompal 09.]

Take a look at their policies.  They offer the client 50% off their next massage as long as they adhere to not disclosing their contact info with the MT.Sounds cheesey.  So, ??  an MT would not go twice to the same client?  What compensation does the MT make on the now 50% discounted rate?UGHRobyn

 

[Chloepop]

"Well Kneaded Massage" - opinions?

As far as things like that go, I feel that if you are seeing a client that you did no marketing for yourself, and are being handed a client by a source that makes their money by referrals, you should continue going through the referral source. You never would have massaged the client anyway, and you put forth no effort in attracting the client. I feel taking the client and seeing them in your clinic for a lower price is about as ethical as going into a top-notch spa, and offering the same services for a lower price, besically to slap the spa in the face. The client had their choice to begin with, they just seemed to have chosen Well Kneaded Massage instead of the private practitioner.

I agree,... almost. I think a time limit would be appropriate since WKM isn't providing a space and/or equipment.  I do think that if you agree to terms, even if less than ideal, you should abide by them.

 

[curkendall16]

"Well Kneaded Massage" - opinions?

As far as their non-compete, it just basically says that you cannot solicit their clients to your business, nor can you solicit business from anyone you meet while performing a service call with WKM. Pretty straightforward... but I don't know how they can prevent the client from finding you and coming to see you directly in your private business, and they don't state the penalties for having that happen.

I'm not so sure many companies actually make it a habit to keep a watchful eye on their therapists to prevent them from being sneaky about violating the non-compete. I'd assume that most therapists that do sign the contract keep to their ethics and do not violate it, but then again there are always those that will sign the contract knowing they're going to violate it. I'm sure Well Kneaded Massage knows that as well. As for the penalty of violating the non-compete, that should be in the contract itself.

 

[Shorty15c4]

"Well Kneaded Massage" - opinions?

Seforum.xxxg,The sad truth is, every therapist we have fired for trying to poach clients all sat in the chair during the interview and nodded knowingly when we explained - showed them in writing and had them sign - where it says "I will only represent R&R when dealing with R&R clients and will only hand out R&R contact information" It also goes on to say I will not give out my last name (we do this more for security reasons than for non-compete reasons, with a full name and knowing they are a licensed MT, any weirdo can get their contact info from the board of health or AMTA or other sources).And everyone of these people claimed "I would never do such a thing" when we told them of how many people we have fired for doing just that and the circumstances by which we found out.We do, however, also spell out the penalities - which is forfeiture of any money owed.Not sure if that has dissuaded anyone other than our longest serving therapist who is pretty quick to tell us if they see other therapists giving out their info (amazing that they would do this in front of someone else).The reason companies do this is the same reason you would - you don't want to spend $15 - $20 to acquire a customer, only to lose them after one appointment because a therapist gave out their personal info or offered to under cut the rate. If the client really loves the therapist, then they can call us - or your salon - to reschedule.

 

[Symnkayakex]

"Well Kneaded Massage" - opinions?

Seforum.xxxg,

The sad truth is, every therapist we have fired for trying to poach clients all sat in the chair during the interview and nodded knowingly when we explained - showed them in writing and had them sign - where it says "I will only represent R&R when dealing with R&R clients and will only hand out R&R contact information" It also goes on to say I will not give out my last name (we do this more for security reasons than for non-compete reasons, with a full name and knowing they are a licensed MT, any weirdo can get their contact info from the board of health or AMTA or other sources).

And everyone of these people claimed "I would never do such a thing" when we told them of how many people we have fired for doing just that and the circumstances by which we found out.

We do, however, also spell out the penalities - which is forfeiture of any money owed.

I like that penalty, lol. Some people just have that "I'll never get caught" mentality, and eventually get comfortable giving out their info, making them less careful about being sneaky. At least you have some loyal therapists who will help out the company in weeding out the ones that try to steal clients! They have to eat too, so they need those clients coming back to their place of business. All about job security, hehehe.

 

[Pompal 09.]

"Well Kneaded Massage" - opinions?

Most incidents of "breaking" a non-compete have nothing to do with a MT "stealing" or "poaching" a client, which few MT's will actually do as it: (1) is cheesy (2) makes the therapist look desperate (3) puts the client's "loyalty" to the establishment on    the spot (4) puts the MT in a situation where he or she is violating    a rule and is liable to be reported, or fired.People DO have the ability to find you on their own, however, and to choose to book any place where you are working. And they will. No one asks the client to sign a form that they will not seek out a particular therapist, because no one has the right to do that. I've worked in some top-notch venues, sometimes simultaneously, actually increasing business very handsomely at each.  I've never been asked to sign a non-compete. I think that is an insulting way to begin a service relationship. I would never sign or work with a service whose first assumption was that I was a "thief."I don't know about your vicinity, R&R, but most states require a copy of every MT's license clearly displayed on the wall, if you offer incall. And every client, in states where massage is regulated, has the right to question the MT whether he or she is licensed, and to ask for proof to that claim, that's why wallet sized cards are often issued with renewal. Gi

 

[toilltoft]

"Well Kneaded Massage" - opinions?

Gute, while it may be all those things, when I first moved to the salon I work at now, the owner gave me a list of the previous therapists clients, phone numbers, addresses, everything. It hadn't been picked up by the previous therapist yet. She wanted me to call each one and let them know that I was the new massage therapist at the salon. I feel this is on the same level as trying to "steal" the previous therapist's clients, and told the owner that. She told me that the previous therapist did that, and that's how she got a few of the names on that list. So there are some therapists out there that aren't above doing that.Personally, if I were a client and someone called me and told me that they reviewed my health history form, decided I would go to them from now on, and called me asking me to book an appointment, I'd be so incredibly furious I would spit nails. It's illegal, unethical, and down-right rude. Too bad my salon owner still doesn't seem to have a problem with it, as she told me the offer is always on the table.

 

[Pompal 09.]

Well,Seforum.xxxg, I wouldn't do that either. If the book belongs to the spa, they do have the right to call clients and tell them about their new therapist, or feature the therapist in the advertising sent them. If its the girl's private book,I wouldn't touch it, nor would I let the spa do it on my behalf.It would also cross a privacy issue with the clients involved.  Even so, there really is no instance of "stealing" clients by just having their names. People usually remain with work that pleases them. They are also free to chose the therapist that best suits their needs.What is ignored here in the determination to limit, is the vast majority of therapists who refer out clients to other MT's with specific approaches and specialties. That, I believe, is responsible for the growth of our practice, and the respect that we have for each other as peers. Just my two cents! Gi