Contracting ICs

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I've had a "house call" massage business for over 10 years and have mostly worked on my own. At various times I've had informal arrangements with colleagues who have helped me out when I had more work than I could comfortably handle or when I was on vacation.

The usual arrangment has been for me to receive 20-30% of what the therapist received for doing the massages and they also keep 100% of any tips. I decided too that after the other therapist has successfully worked with the new client at least two times, they could then keep 100% of what they make for all future appointments.

Today I received a call from a massage therapist who is interested in doing some work with me. She sent me her resume and it looks very impressive and I would like to have her work with me on a regular basis.

I've always worked on the honor system with the other therapists and never felt like I was ever taken advaneforum.xxxe of. However, since I don't know this new therapist at all, I was thinking that perhaps for the protection of both of us, I should consider having some sort of a formal contract.

I would really appreciate any suggestions or feedback from others who have had experience hiring ICs to work with them. It would be great too if you could share with me a sample format for an IC contract. Thanks for your help.

 

[Pompal 09.]

Be very clear about everything

As with most things in life, the devil is in the details.

Firstly, you don't "hire" ICs, you contract them. Nitpicking? Yes, but when you refer to hiring someone, they will use it against you with the Labor Board should things get ugly.

When we started our mobile business, there were only 3 rules. 6 years later we have three pages of operating guidelines and a three page contract. Why? Because we never imagined we had to spell out in black and white things like "Don't date your clients", "Don't take gifts to George Clooney the day after you gave him a massage, and try to leave it with the hotel manager using his real name and not his assumed name", and "once you have accepted an assignment, only a personal medical emergency - or worse - involving an immediate family member is sufficient reason for not showing up and not calling us to tell us why (and the second part being forgivable only in the "or worse" scenario)". You get the idea.

And everyone we ever interviewed all nodded knowingly and tutt-tutted when we told them these tales of woe and intrigue. Yet within a year 50% of them were sent on their merry way and a new bullet point was added to the guidelines.

If these clients are coming to you for referrals, then it is your reputation on the line. And legally, it might be your butt on the line if you do not make a full disclosure to these clients of the relationship between you and those you contract. You have to protect your reputation and your livelihood, and having more clients than you can serve is also worth something - all of this is worth a lot more than 20% for the first two visits.

Also check your state law. In the bizarro-world that is CA, ICs have been granted Workers Comp coverage in some cases.

 

[Cleopatra]

Be very clear about everything

And everyone we ever interviewed all nodded knowingly and tutt-tutted when we told them these tales of woe and intrigue. Yet within a year 50% of them were sent on their merry way and a new bullet point was added to the guidelines.

Thanks so much for your reply R&R. (I love the name of your business BTW.) I have several comments and a few questions for you that will have to wait until later since I am a bit short on time now.

However, before I have to scoot I was wondering if you have any advice for me about massage interviews since I really haven't ever given one before. Do you typically receive a massage as part of the interview process and if so, what sort of arrangements do you make?

I was thinking about offering to do some sort of a trade with her, but I'm not really sure how I feel about that. What if I don't like her massage at all and then am still obligated to give her one? Since she initiated contact with me, could I perhaps at least ask her for a 30 minute demo?

Thanks again for all of your help.

 

[KELLi]

Be very clear about everything

As with most things in life, the devil is in the details.

Firstly, you don't "hire" ICs, you contract them. Nitpicking? Yes, but when you refer to hiring someone, they will use it against you with the Labor Board should things get ugly.

No this isn't nitpicking at all. Thanks! As soon as I finish this reply perhaps I should ask one of the moderators to change the title of this thread to something like "Contracting IC's" (does that sound okay??)

When we started our mobile business, there were only 3 rules.

Just out of curiosity, what were the three rules you started out with?

6 years later we have three pages of operating guidelines and a three page contract.

Besides what you mentioned, what would you say are the most important rules that you added later?

Because we never imagined we had to spell out in black and white things like "Don't date your clients"......

Now that you mention it, spelling out "in black and white things like "Don't date your clients"" is more important than I would have thought when I first started doing massage. A little over two years ago I found out after the fact that a friend of mine who informally did a couple of jobs for me has no problem with dating clients. :shock: Fortunately she didn't date any of the clients that I arranged for her to work on, but after hearing this piece of information that most definitely ended our professional relationship. In fact, I lost so much respect for her that this revelation put a severe strain on our friendship too.

If these clients are coming to you for referrals, then it is your reputation on the line.

This is another good point you make. As far as I know, none of the friends and colleagues I had helping me out with my business ever did anything inappropriate or unprofessional, but if they had, that could have reflected poorly on my business.

And legally, it might be your butt on the line if you do not make a full disclosure to these clients of the relationship between you and those you contract.

What would I actually need to say to a potential client other than the fact that the massage therapist I am referring them to is an IC who is not directly employed by me?

....having more clients than you can serve is also worth something - all of this is worth a lot more than 20% for the first two visits.

It is also really nice to have those days where I end up making an extra $100 just for making 3 or 4 phone calls. 8) Since roughly 60% of the potential new clients responding to my advertising mention that they prefer a female therapist, if I don't have anyone else I can refer them to, then this is business that I am losing. There are also those days where everyone wants a massage at roughly the same time and since there is just one of me, this is also lost business if I have no one to refer these clients to.

And finally, do you think that asking for 30% is not enough? When I was just getting started I did some work for someone who wanted me to give her 50% for every job and I felt that was a bit too much for outcalls. Several years ago one of my colleagues as well as a friend complained that 30% was too high so for awhile I let both of them keep 80%, but in retrospect, I didn't feel comfortable with that arrangement either.

 

[Fisher_King]

Be very clear about everything

6 years later we have three pages of operating guidelines and a three page contract.

Mind sharing the operating guidelines and / or the contract?

 

[<3SKYI<3]

Be very clear about everything

.......I was wondering if you have any advice for me about massage interviews since I really haven't ever given one before. Do you typically receive a massage as part of the interview process and if so, what sort of arrangements do you make?

I was thinking about offering to do some sort of a trade with her, but I'm not really sure how I feel about that. What if I don't like her massage at all and then am still obligated to give her one? Since she initiated contact with me, could I perhaps at least ask her for a 30 minute demo?

If anyone with experience giving a massage interview has any advice for me, that would be very cool. t004

Thanks!

 

[Almost Happy Housewife]

here is a really great article from logoworks & careerbuilder that you will find helpful.


http://smallbusiness.logoworks.com/newsletter/index.php/03/2007/02/14-killer-questions-to-ask-in-your-next-interview/

 

[Arlanymor]

Thanks for posting that link "terab." Those are some very interesting and thought provoking questions.

I'm still hoping to get some feedback from someone who has experience conducting interviews for massage jobs. I have only interviewed for one massage job and felt like I was a bit taken advaneforum.xxxe of when I was required to give a 60 minute massage.

Are job applicants typically expected to give a massage as part of the interview process and if so, for how long? Also are there any questions specifically related to massage that I might want to consider asking?

Thanks!

 

[mrmanmduran]

I'm still hoping to get some feedback from someone who has experience conducting interviews for massage jobs. I have only interviewed for one massage job and felt like I was a bit taken advaneforum.xxxe of when I was required to give a 60 minute massage. Are job applicants typically expected to give a massage as part of the interview process and if so, for how long?

Yes, hands-on massage should definitely be part of the interview process. I think 30 minutes is sufficient to evaluate someone's technique, without the applicant feeling taken advaneforum.xxxe of. I would not make it a trade. She's applying for a job with you, and thefore needs to demonstrate their skills. Her reward is the job (if she's good.)

 

[yogirl66]

Yes, hands-on massage should definitely be part of the interview process. I think 30 minutes is sufficient to evaluate someone's technique, without the applicant feeling taken advaneforum.xxxe of. I would not make it a trade. She's applying for a job with you, and thefore needs to demonstrate their skills. Her reward is the job (if she's good.)

Thanks so much for your reply. I agree with you that 30 minutes would probably be a sufficient amount of time "to evaluate someone's technique," especially if I have her focus on a particular area such as a 30 minute neck, back, and shoulder massage.

 

[Jessica L]

Yes, hands-on massage should definitely be part of the interview process. I think 30 minutes is sufficient to evaluate someone's technique, without the applicant feeling taken advaneforum.xxxe of. I would not make it a trade. She's applying for a job with you, and thefore needs to demonstrate their skills. Her reward is the job (if she's good.)

No offense but I think I could evaluates someones touch by having them work my shoulders for five minutes while I'm sitting. Don't you think you all could demonstrate your ability in five minutes? Heck I bet most of you could do it less then a minute.

Research has showen that we evaluate people in the first fifteen seconds. Couldn't massage be the same way? Hey I like their touch, or Owwweee they have a yucky touch/energy. Isn't taking 30 minutes just a polite way of saying I'm really evaluating you when you probably made up your mind in the first minute or two wheather you like them or not.

In all the massages I've had I pretty much know immediately if it is going to work or not, both giving and recieving. If its a matter of checking draping technique you could just have them demonstrate that very quickly.

Food for thought.

Jason

 

[e l i z a ?]

Check references

I would only forgo a demonstration if the therapist had considerable experience in a top establishment whose references bore this out.

For us, demonstrations are less about competence than they are about assessing style. If a client really likes Julie's massage, but Julie is on vacation this week, I want to know that Carla's massage is similar so that the client will be happy.

I don't think you can get that kind of assessment in 5 minutes of chair massage or the 15 minutes of hands on flesh.

Sort of like defining the world based on a view from a knot hole in a fence...

 

[skywise012000]

We ask for a 30 minute demo massage as stated "to address style" and to assure ourselves of compentency. What we ask is that they do 5-10 minutes of their typical relaxation style massage and then the rest of the time doing more therapeutic modalities. We need to know that if a client calls and books a massage to address a specific problem then the therapist is capable of doing just that. We've hired too many over the years that stated they could do NMT, MFR, deep tissue ect.... only to find out from client's complaints that all they ever did was rub lotion on them.

Angie

 

[theymademedoit]

to me the massage part of the interview is not only for their massage but also for their draping techniques and for the overall session experience. to me, this can't be done in 5, 15 or even 30 minutes. i think it needs to be the full 60 minutes.

i talked to a woman who pays the person interviewing $20 for their massage. so they don't feel taken advaneforum.xxxe of.

but i have to say that how can anyone who is looking for a good job feel like they are being taken advaneforum.xxxe of by having to give a massage for a massage position? how else do you think you're supposed to get the job? 5, 15 or 30 minutes isn't enough to show how good you are or aren't. sometimes it takes the full hour to know that someone doesn't cut it. i like to know what a typical full session is from each therapist. why would i have them work with me for only 15 or 30 minutes but let them work with my clients for 60. i want to know what my clients' experience is going to be with the therapist so that requires the full hour. just my thought.

 

[C0lOMBiiAN-BABee]

Well, to be the devil's advocate here, just because I am in a cranky mood, someone interviewing for a secretary might feel taken advaneforum.xxxe of if required to do an hours worth of work in an unfamiliar office. A waitress doesn't have to wait tables free for an hour, to show what the customers will get out of her.

I understand the concept of a hands on interview. I don't totally disagree with it - but I think the person who pays $20 is on the right track. Especially if a place is interviewing several people for one position and not narrowing it down before getting massages as part of the process, it does happen that MT's are taken advaneforum.xxxe of, even when there is NO thought of hiring them. I've seen a business owner that I worked with "interview" several MT's that she had no intentions of hiring. She was just getting free massages. She isn't the only one out there doing it.

 

[aaron 27]

just because I am in a cranky mood

I think it's good to occassionally be in a cranky mood....kinda lets some steam out.
t076

someone interviewing for a secretary might feel taken advaneforum.xxxe of if required to do an hours worth of work in an unfamiliar office.

Back "in the days" I had a number of interviews where I was required to take a typing test, shorthand test etc..........

Especially if a place is interviewing several people for one position and not narrowing it down before getting massages as part of the process

We do all of our "general" interviews first, then narrow it down to one or two applicants for the hands on part.

I've seen a business owner that I worked with "interview" several MT's that she had no intentions of hiring. She was just getting free massages.

This is just wrong! t018 Hopefully the word will spread about these interviewers and their suspect behavior and people will not fall for it.

Angie

 

[Pompal 09.]

Well, to be the devil's advocate here, just because I am in a cranky mood, someone interviewing for a secretary might feel taken advaneforum.xxxe of if required to do an hours worth of work in an unfamiliar office. A waitress doesn't have to wait tables free for an hour, to show what the customers will get out of her.

I understand the concept of a hands on interview. I don't totally disagree with it - but I think the person who pays $20 is on the right track. Especially if a place is interviewing several people for one position and not narrowing it down before getting massages as part of the process, it does happen that MT's are taken advaneforum.xxxe of, even when there is NO thought of hiring them. I've seen a business owner that I worked with "interview" several MT's that she had no intentions of hiring. She was just getting free massages. She isn't the only one out there doing it.

i understand your point but look at the turnover rate of secretary's and waitresses. also, look at their responsibilities. (and i'm not knocking these job's. heck, i was a waitress for 10 years before becoming an mt) stylist's must show they know how to cut & color hair and i've never heard of any being annoyed that they had to show their skills & knowledge. nail tech's must also show their skills. i just don't see any way an mt could expect to get a job without giving a 60 minute massage. i wouldn't even want to work in a place that didn't make me prove my work.

and the lady paying for the interviews? i thought it was very cool. it really makes her & her establishment a place that you would respect.

 

[walt17jr]

I believe we had a really nice thread about hands-on interviews in which Kneadfulthings was a part.

Maybe someone has the time and energy to look up that thread and link it here? (Not me - I am a bit fried currently.)

 

[staalwart]

I believe we had a really nice thread about hands-on interviews in which Kneadfulthings was a part.

Maybe someone has the time and energy to look up that thread and link it here? (Not me - I am a bit fried currently.)

I take it that "Kneadfulthings" is the username of one of the massage therapists who posts here. If someone could post a link to that earlier thread I would really appreciate it. Thanks!

 

[Navy ACC]

Be very clear about everything

As with most things in life, the devil is in the details.

Firstly, you don't "hire" ICs, you contract them. Nitpicking? Yes, but when you refer to hiring someone, they will use it against you with the Labor Board should things get ugly.

When we started our mobile business, there were only 3 rules. 6 years later we have three pages of operating guidelines and a three page contract. Why? Because we never imagined we had to spell out in black and white things like "Don't date your clients", "Don't take gifts to George Clooney the day after you gave him a massage, and try to leave it with the hotel manager using his real name and not his assumed name", and "once you have accepted an assignment, only a personal medical emergency - or worse - involving an immediate family member is sufficient reason for not showing up and not calling us to tell us why (and the second part being forgivable only in the "or worse" scenario)". You get the idea.

And everyone we ever interviewed all nodded knowingly and tutt-tutted when we told them these tales of woe and intrigue. Yet within a year 50% of them were sent on their merry way and a new bullet point was added to the guidelines.

If these clients are coming to you for referrals, then it is your reputation on the line. And legally, it might be your butt on the line if you do not make a full disclosure to these clients of the relationship between you and those you contract. You have to protect your reputation and your livelihood, and having more clients than you can serve is also worth something - all of this is worth a lot more than 20% for the first two visits.

Also check your state law. In the bizarro-world that is CA, ICs have been granted Workers Comp coverage in some cases.

I just wanted to thank R&R again for this very informative post. It really has helped me get much clearer about the types of therapists I want to contract with as well as what some of the steps are that I need to take to insure that I protect the reputation of my business.

Thanks!