160 is the NEW 200!

[Jackiecliede]

Sounds like a classic example of "It hasn't happened yet" duhhhhh.. Have you ever heard of the story of the first men's sock manufacturer in China? Within 5 years there were 3,000 of them. This isn't only about Asians either. Ever heard of the reasons why there will never be a black President?.. Why there will never be a woman President? Why we'll never end our dependence on oil, foreign or domestic? Why electric cars are impractical and will never be mass produced? How man could never make it to the moon- How pimps will never go out of style- Why the price of oil will never be $100 per barrel or $40 per barrel? ..and the hits just keep on coming... Even that idiot, our former Governor, started to balk and tried bargaining down the prices years after becoming a client [no.9] of a high profile escort agency.
My, my, could it be that pussy isn't worth $2000 and hour? Idiots disagree.
It's all about understanding what is sustainable and what is not and what the hell is going on. Most people live minute to minute or day to day and don't bother thinking about what's coming. How about these statements:

Once an idea is born it cannot be reversed.
It's not that sometimes things change it's that the only constant today IS change.

 

[Journey]

I have no problem with the KMP's going to $160 because of a shitty economy. Under that premise don't see why you would only focus on the $200 KMPs-- Gold's, Fuji, West Garden etc. and every other AMP that has extras should lower their fees as well and the girl's should expect lower tips.

To get back on topic, as far as I know the established KMPs are staying at $200. I don't know if 2 places- VC/Eden makes a trend. A couple of spots just appeared to have (re)opened with good talent- Bluesky, Geishafriends, I far as I know they are still $200.

EDIT- But I did notice that in a CL ad, Pinkpearl is offering a $10-20 discount if you mention massageplaces.com

 

[idewwumkiqaijkejt]

60G is 60G, off the sweat of others...
Legit business's have to pay taxes and do their best to skim to maximize their net cut.
Start up cost is the investment, don't count that.
Everyone here is looking at the feasibility of a $60 cut and it can be had. Prices of rents are dropping and people are inclined to negotiate when there is a "global" impact in the pay for play market.

It's been stated ad nauseum, that KMP's don't compete on price. Any business that does not adapt to the fiscal pressures will not survive, so someone out there will make a move and if it is known that that the change in price structure is working, others will follow. It is reasonable to say that everyone is cutting back, KMP's have to aknowledge or lose business to compettitors.

I will not "speak" on this further because I do feel that spending money on beautiful robots leaves something to be desired. Nor will I discuss why I am calling them robots. (Better times can be had for less/equal at a Massage AMP's or Hybrid AMP's)

 

[fesjoejy]

I am not that sure what that means, but I think I want to see it. Back to the girls-- from the girl's perspective- if she is at a fairly popular place and sees 6 customers a day (which would probably be down from a year or so ago's high volume but it is an estimate)-- some guys tip/some don't, figure she gets $600-700 a day and pays $100 to the house for food, etc. (which would cover the cost of food and cook). So, round it down to $500 a day, 3 week shift. Round it down to $10k a month. Work 11 months - $110k a year tax free to the girl. A lot of assumptions- yes--but I think they are pretty reasonable. If they do better volume-- well now you know why Pepsi has the louis vuitton catalogue and Yong is retired, while the rest of us are the ones taking it in the ass.

FD- interesting post-- Are you saying that it is common for someone to develop the place and then sells it off to a K-girl? I am not denying it, but most don't seem to last that long and at those prices, I would think it makes more sense to start it up themselves (yeah I know there would be an issue with the lease and the renovations).


And I would add $200 for someone like Yong vs. $5k for Ashley Dupree is one hell of a bargain. Don't count on price cuts.

 

[liucai86090]

Also keep in mind the startup cost of actually purchasing a location. The way these KMP girls do it is that the price is three month's worth of revenue.

So let's just say 10 customers per day: 10 customers x 30 days x 100 house fee = $90,000

That means they're looking at paying at least approximately $100,000 upfront just to run the business.

Now imagine buying a spot that has 20 customers per day. $200,000

30 customers per day? $300,000

Then don't forget about the girls who borrow the money from loan sharks at double digit interest rates to start their business.

 

[wiekgufoimxiklexn]

Many assumptions, few facts about cost and elasticity of demand.

Cost not mentioned-
mamasan (cook+ house maid services) and a phone person, maybe two phone people. I understand they don't come cheap because of the risky circumstances.

Advertising, I don't know how much that is but I am sure it is more than you think.

Finally, rent in manhattan for a sizable appropriate space is probably more than you think, I don't think 5K covers everything in a centralized business district, pluse it is likely there is hush money to keep the landlord or other tenetes happy. You are also forgetting deposit, broker fees, furniture, and moving expenses for initial start up, not to mention carpenters to build those silly table showers. Leases are usually for a year or two so it is not likely that existing houses are getting a break.

You do the math and unless you are getting a volume business it is not a huge margin, probably not worth the risk in this environment.

And all of you are assuming demand is tremendously elastic based on a 20% discount, that may not be the case. You guys are throwing numbers around as if you know how many people visit a spot a day. It might not be at the levels you think.

Even at 5,000 a month profit, do you think that is a good living given the risk and worry? That is 60K a year, granted it is tax free. I think there are better ways to make money these days. A legit business will probably do better.

During the boom days before the recession hit and when the LE were not so crazy I can imagine people became millionaires, probably not today.

Places will probably start lowering prices in a protracted recession and when leases can be re-negoticated but in the end it will be the millionaire mamasans who will be able to handle deficits.

I also forgot to mention that headliners probably get a guarantee regardless if they see a customer.

If you start a price war, do you think it will ultimately stop at 160? You understand that and you understand why houses try not to compete on price. And if you think about how price effects demand it has its greatest effect when only a small minority are charging a discount. If everyone had the same discounted rate perhaps overall demand might go up but it would be distributed among the houses, the effect would be diluted and then you are back to competeing on location, talent, advertising, and services, not price. It only works when you are the only one with the discounted price and have everything else the same otherwise you open a price war or retaliation by competitors- LE and Fireman calls. Not so simple when you start to think about it.

The truth is, this is the bottom of the food chain. If I were running a place I would not cater to cheap clients I would serve the Spitzers, CEO's, and brokers with Ivy league, 20 something, model face and body putang. That is where the real money is not the McDonald land money that are interested in saving $40.00

If it were me I would wait to open a house when the environment was less hostile but I have a choice I don't think the girls and the mamasan's have the same options I have.

 

[Mr. Fantastic]

Above numbers don't work- too low--from owner's perspective- that is per girl. From the girl's perspective, she won't have to pay all the expenses. So both owners & girls will do better than 60k per year. Of course as below, all of this is volume dependent and while biz is slow- I don't know what what means in terms of volume.

 

[helterskeltergoneawry]

and to point out the obvious-- that is per girl-- and avg. should be higher since you subtracted all the expenses from the earnings from one girl-- assuming had that type of volume. Even the $40 c-town latina houses are likely making huge bank when you think of the volume and low expenses. Moral of the story- it's good to be a brothel owner.

 

[gridagent]

At 5G's a month cold cash, I'm leaning into running a house. But seriously, they start living at a level they were not accustomed to and everything changes.

 

[Frantastic]

Good math Cantin...that looks about right but yet they still have to pay the girls a flat rate for a day that they dont have clients. Bailout money when they get busted...100 ads per week on CL is $1000 right there lol

hmmmm i think they still have about $5000-$8000 profit...CASH MONEY NO TAX

KMP's are just so stupid...they rather charge $$ and get no clients than charge $160 and have a flood of mongers busting down the door! anyone good with a CL search can find plenty of girls (asian as well) charging $160...thats why I stopped going to KMP's ...too much for too little. Now for $160...that has my attention!

 

[Abs]

I'm a high school drop out with a GED but I think a $60 take is not so bad.

10 customers a day= $600
x 7 days = $4200
x 30 days=$18000
Rental & Utilities=$5000
=$13000
Advertising& paying shills= ?

Anything else and the figure still looks good
(on avg & wishful thinking)

 

[Jem]

Rent is trending cheaper. And easier to find and secure sort term apt rentals.

 

[Cliff]

Can the house survive on 40% of its income with expenses remaining unchanged?

Only if demand takes a 40% jump with a 20% discount. I am not sure that will happen.

It is more likely the girl will get 80 and the house 80 and a 20% discount would lead to a 20% increase in demand- if they have good talent.

It is an interesting experiment- but I am sure there is going to be a lot of dicking people around in some cases just because price alone will get fellas to call only to discover that they end up getting 160 worth of service, which is no bargin.

 

[The Spork-Tacular Xak-kun]

It all depends on what the cut is. With $200, the girls got $100 and the house got $100. $160 is the normal rate at most AMPs outside of Manhattan and the cut there is $100 to the girl and $60 to the house. If it remains that way in Manhattan, then I don't see service falling off.

 

[Shazia]

I would think these chicks would be pissed off if they had to take a cut in there daily earnings.200 has been the # for many moons. I realize the economy sucks ass right now, but I still think that if 160 becomes the norm. most of the established Kmp icons (Tera,Tasha,Pinky,Sugar etc)won't give the same great sevice their famous for.

 

[ASAD]

This my thread and there is a $50 minimum for Providers to post here.
So what incentives make people want to stay beyond the traditional hour!

 

[Aquella BSL=BS]

..you've got the right idea NABBEUN.

 

[Dobarreyth]

i'd like to think the $$ rate is cracking in midtown. i bet VC is catching a lot of anger from other amps for it.

fwiw the standard script is generally all you get at any of the cookie cutter places in manhattan. now finally you can save 20% upfront...why not?

the first sign of cracking was widespread intro of those damn repeat visitor cards. i hope those useless things are replaced by a simple reduced rate.

i have not been to VC yet, but did see the ad. it is something new atm. occasionally other amps in the past have tried it but it didn't take. here's to it sticking and broadening this time around. i'll support both vc and e4a in this trend.

i can tell you i have no love for any of those $$ fs places. some girls are fine but mgmt has no concept of cust service, so i take business elsewhere whenever i can help it.

 

[!..dip it low..!]

You are spot on Wink, but there are exceptions out there.
Also, if one lets things be scripted they will proceed in a trance.
Break the routine, show a little charm and the experience changes radically with some.
A script is bad in the wrong hands but delivered with authentic feeling and it isn't bad actually.
It is the mechanical routine that is the problem, it is a matter of delivery and performance not simply of script.

I say do your home work, it has gotten more difficult with professional shill posters but it is still possible to sort through the threads and find the good ones.

Addressing the main point of the thread, I don't think 160/h is a widespread phenomena and it appears something is compromised as a result. My experience, do it right or save your money and do it yourself.
Nothing is worse than blowing cash on regrets.

 

[jeffmesa35]

Thank you for the comp and yes, I did exaggerate a bit, but just a bit. Since I speak some Korean (I'm non-Asian) and know their culture pretty well (used to live with a Korean chick), I can frequently get a "little more mileage" though the standard FS Korean AMP is the worst place to look for GFE service. At a minimum, I can usually get some DFK going with a K-girl at one of these places. They will usually warm up to me because I'm sort of a novelty -- "Oh my God, how you learn to speak Korean? You speak very good." To which I'll respond in Korean, "Oh, my Korean is very bad. I'm an idiot." And they laugh. You see, I follow a script with these gals too -- LOL.

I've come to know personally a number of working K-gals and mamasans through the years and it's been an eye opener. The mamasans I've come to know will make notes about the customers: who you saw, how long you took, what you like and the gals will chime in with their own comments. This is done even more now since business is generally slow all around.