Question Catching COVID-19 (Omicron)

[Deleted member 88306]

New Study Finds "Fully Vaccinated and Boosted" Individuals Experience Faster Omicron Spread

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[funliness]

Stanford study: Lockdowns have no clear benefit – Palo Alto Daily Post

padailypost.com

follow the science - in this case the hundreds of countries and scientists saying that lock downs work outnumber the non-lockdown sacientiss by a huge amount. It would be idiotic not to stay with consensus on this one

 

[jimmyd]

My analogy makes perfect sense because I wasn't comparing statistics but I was comparing two similar scenarios of social norms. (1) the need to have insurance when driving, and (2) the need to be vaccinated. They are both legal requirements that society has put in place that serve similar purposes.

I could refute each one of your "points" but you are just using the same anti-vaxxer logic against insurance.

What I did take away from this is that you are definitely a pedestrian that doesn't drive, and you are stupid to say that you "would feel safe." Makes sense because you don't even have a car, at least TXC owns a bicycle. If you drive a motor vehicle you would be even more stupid to say you would feel safe with a road full of uninsured drivers, or a hypocrite.

Maybe you are both?

Seems to me, you’re a moron for making assumptions based on no facts. But I knew that when you first contributed to this discussion.

You’re analogy is stupid and nonsensical. If a person is insured they don’t have to worry about other drivers being insured. They are covered. If someone is vaccinated, technically, they don’t have to worry about others being unvaccinated, right? They are immune. Or is it protection? Or is it a therapeutic? Or is it nothing? Is that why you’re concerned? You want us get vaccinated because you were duped into it?

I swear, either Covid has made us all much more stupid, or I mistakenly thought we were much smarter.


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[MorningWood]

Here's some advance notice to the anti-vaxxers.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/duclos-mandatory-vaccination-policies-on-way-1.6307398

The article mentions that in some European countries that have instituted mandatory vaccine policies, enforcement is in the form of fines for non-compliance, and there are also cash incentives to get vaccinated. Stick and carrot.

 

[Deleted member 88306]

New Study CONFIRMS COVID Vaccine Affecting Women's Menstrual Cycles, CDC Says NOT To Worry

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[niceandnaughty]

Isn't it a fact that you cannot legally drive in Ontario, or Canada, or USA without insurance?



This is exactly the anti-vaxxer rhetoric/logic that I was referring to. Let me indulge you Jimmy The Troll, if you were to drive in Ontario when you get your drivers' license, and you were in a road full of equal number of uninsured as well as insured drivers, you would feel unsafe about being on the road.

Right now, you can quote all those statistics about automotive accidents because everyone driving has insurance sans a tiny miniscule percentage. Do you understand this? If insurance wasn't mandatory, people would be more weary about driving and we would have a much more chaotic highways and roads system.



You are damn right about this, paired up with the internet the idiots are emboldened to talk about things that they don't even have a iota of understanding about.

Forget the analogy and deal with the point you are trying to make. You feel unsafe because 16.2% of the population in Ontario is unvaccinated. That's your point.

Why do you feel safer around the 77.6% fully vaccinated or the 6.2% partially vaccinated who can just as easily catch or spread the disease?
Daily case counts are proving that covid is hitting all groups almost equally as today's numbers also indicate.
Fully Vaccinated - 80%
Unvaccinated - 13%
Partially & Unknown - 7%

Today only 18% of covid patients in the hospital are unvaccinated.

So your fear of only the unvaccinated is bigoted and illogical.

Be afraid Frank because you too could end up in the ICU.

Today in the ICU:
Unvaccinated - 35%
Fully Vaccinated - 32%
Partially Vaccinated -5%
Unknown - 28%

 

[niceandnaughty]

Forget the analogy and deal with the point you are trying to make. You feel unsafe because 16.2% of the population in Ontario is unvaccinated. That's your point.

Why do you feel safer around the 77.6% fully vaccinated or the 6.2% partially vaccinated who can just as easily catch or spread the disease?
Daily case counts are proving that covid is hitting all groups almost equally as today's numbers also indicate.
Fully Vaccinated - 80%
Unvaccinated - 13%
Partially & Unknown - 7%

Today only 18% of covid patients in the hospital are unvaccinated.

So your fear of only the unvaccinated is bigoted and illogical.

Be afraid Frank because you too could end up in the ICU.

Today in the ICU:
Unvaccinated - 35%
Fully Vaccinated - 32%
Partially Vaccinated -5%
Unknown - 28%

By the way Frank I hope that you do not end up in the ICU. Just want you to be more open minded

 

[stripfan]

Forget the analogy and deal with the point you are trying to make. You feel unsafe because 16.2% of the population in Ontario is unvaccinated. That's your point.

Why do you feel safer around the 77.6% fully vaccinated or the 6.2% partially vaccinated who can just as easily catch or spread the disease?
Daily case counts are proving that covid is hitting all groups almost equally as today's numbers also indicate.
Fully Vaccinated - 80%
Unvaccinated - 13%
Partially & Unknown - 7%

Today only 18% of covid patients in the hospital are unvaccinated.

So your fear of only the unvaccinated is bigoted and illogical.

Be afraid Frank because you too could end up in the ICU.

Today in the ICU:
Unvaccinated - 35%
Fully Vaccinated - 32%
Partially Vaccinated -5%
Unknown - 28%

Unknown could be fully vaxxed without documents.

 

[AHK47]

Forget the analogy and deal with the point you are trying to make. You feel unsafe because 16.2% of the population in Ontario is unvaccinated. That's your point.

Why do you feel safer around the 77.6% fully vaccinated or the 6.2% partially vaccinated who can just as easily catch or spread the disease?
Daily case counts are proving that covid is hitting all groups almost equally as today's numbers also indicate.
Fully Vaccinated - 80%
Unvaccinated - 13%
Partially & Unknown - 7%

Today only 18% of covid patients in the hospital are unvaccinated.

So your fear of only the unvaccinated is bigoted and illogical.

Be afraid Frank because you too could end up in the ICU.

Today in the ICU:
Unvaccinated - 35%
Fully Vaccinated - 32%
Partially Vaccinated -5%
Unknown - 28%

Everything you said in your argument is consistent...

UNTIL you get to the ICU numbers.

Despite only being 16% of the population, 35% of the people in ICU are non vaccinated AND that number is likely far higher approaching if not surpassing 50% when you consider those who's vaccination status is 'unknown' Meanwhile the 77% of the population that is vaccinated only represents 32% of the ICU cases.

The rate of those ending up in ICU is 5 TIMES higher for the non vaxxed, those suffering the most severe cases.

I'm dealing with covid right now. It's not pleasant, I feel whole body muscle fatigue, chills, fever and a headache. Thankfully I'm fully vaxxed, could've been much worse otherwise.

 

[Deleted member 88306]

Everything you said in your argument is consistent...

UNTIL you get to the ICU numbers.

Despite only being 16% of the population, 35% of the people in ICU are non vaccinated AND that number is likely far higher approaching if not surpassing 50% when you consider those who's vaccination status is 'unknown' Meanwhile the 77% of the population that is vaccinated only represents 32% of the ICU cases.

The rate of those ending up in ICU is 5 TIMES higher for the non vaxxed, those suffering the most severe cases.

I'm dealing with covid right now. It's not pleasant, I feel whole body muscle fatigue, chills, fever and a headache. Thankfully I'm fully vaxxed, could've been much worse otherwise.

You received all 4 shots?

 

[AHK47]

You received all 4 shots?

Just the original 2, I guess maybe that's not considered fully vaxxed anymore

 

[jimmyd]

Isn't it a fact that you cannot legally drive in Ontario, or Canada, or USA without insurance?



This is exactly the anti-vaxxer rhetoric/logic that I was referring to. Let me indulge you Jimmy The Troll, if you were to drive in Ontario when you get your drivers' license, and you were in a road full of equal number of uninsured as well as insured drivers, you would feel unsafe about being on the road.

Right now, you can quote all those statistics about automotive accidents because everyone driving has insurance sans a tiny miniscule percentage. Do you understand this? If insurance wasn't mandatory, people would be more weary about driving and we would have a much more chaotic highways and roads system.



You are damn right about this, paired up with the internet the idiots are emboldened to talk about things that they don't even have a iota of understanding about.

The number of uninsured drivers on the road neither affects my safety or makes me feel unsafe. And a driver being uninsured does not make them more likely to crash into me.

Think of an other analogy, this one doesn’t work.

It is law for a car to be insured, not a driver. Insurance companies don’t have driver policies. Likewise, it is not law to be vaccinated. That’s why they had to back door the situation. They forced employers/businesses to refuse service/employment to the unvaccinated. That’s illegal too.


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[MorningWood]

Just got this from an article on the National Post website. It's pretty definitive for the current status of the unvaccinated as compared to the vaccinated in terms of cases, hospitalizations and ICU rates, and makes a compelling case for the effectiveness of the vaccines, with some tangible benefit in infection rate, but with massive benefit in reducing hospitalizations and ICU occupancy.

As the saying goes, a picture is worth a thousand words.

 

[jimmyd]

Just got this from an article on the National Post website. It's pretty definitive for the current status of the unvaccinated as compared to the vaccinated in terms of cases, hospitalizations and ICU rates, and makes a compelling case for the effectiveness of the vaccines, with some tangible benefit in infection rate, but with massive benefit in reducing hospitalizations and ICU occupancy.

As the saying goes, a picture is worth a thousand words.

View attachment 189437

Is that of the whole pandemic or just the shitshow we’re in now?

They were messing with the numbers like that 6-8 months ago, claiming 99% of deaths were amongst the unvaccinated. Meanwhile, they were including all the deaths pre vaccine.


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[Deleted member 88306]

Covid PCR 'Testing' Fraud Making Big Pharma Big Profits

The 'test' don't work, the vaccines don't work, the masks don't work, and the lockdowns don't work! It's all obviously a massive fraud, but millions appear to be either too stupid or too brainwashed t...

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[jimmyd]

Are unvaccinated nurses sitting at home?




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[Deleted member 88306]

Just the original 2, I guess maybe that's not considered fully vaxxed anymore

As booster mandates and breakthrough infections grow, health officials are moving away from the term "fully vaccinated."
https://www.cnet.com/profiles/clifford.colby/

Why doesn't 'fully vaccinated' for COVID-19 mean booster shots?

While the CDC pivots away from the term "fully vaccinated," more organizations and governments are requiring boosters.

www.cnet.com

 

[jimmyd]

How does the analogy not work? Did you read my post?

How did I contradict myself?

I read your post, and no matter how you spin it, it doesn’t work.

You said unvaxxed spread it easier, then agreed that we all carry the same viral load and spread it the same. Then said the unvaxxed should stay home for other people’s sensitivities. Which one is it? Do we all spread it equally or no? All the data says we do.


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[jimmyd]

And soon the ratio will be the same as the population.


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[sy barite]

The last sentence was a joke and was a response to the unlikely scenario of “even if 100% were vaccinated” Frank presented. But, if 100% of ICU patients were vaccinated, and were in ICU because of Covid, along with thousands of vaccinated Covid+ people, I don’t believe there’s any conclusion except for, the vaccines don’t work very well.

Why do we keep moving the goal posts? We started with, the vaccines will prevent you from getting Covid. Then, the symptoms are less because of the vaccines. Then, the vaccines prevent hospitalization and death. Now that we have many in hospitals and ICU beds, will it be “the vaccines prevent death”?

The seatbelt analogy is a good one, but doesn’t account for the traditional term vaccine. The polio, MMR etc. vaccines actually prevent “traffic fatalities”, to keep the analogy going. The little bit of infection and spread are actual breakthrough cases.

We keep dancing around the fact that the Covid vaccine isn’t a vaccine, by definition. It can no longer be called a vaccine with the myriads of breakthroughs. That’s why the CDC changed the definition. In the past, vaccines this leaky have been modified, or even discontinued. We’re getting boosters. Which booster will we say enough?


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You said your last sentence was a joke, but then repeated the same logic? Are you joking again?

I'm not aware of ever having moved any goalposts. I've not shared any opinion on the relative transmissibility of the virus in the two groups, because I don't know. It's a separate issue. And I've agree with you that the various spokespeople have said incorrect things about the vaccine and what it can or is supposed to be able to do.

I have limited my statement to the effectiveness of the vaccine and unless you do not believe the numbers (which you've said you do), then it seems to me the only logical conclusion is that it's very effective. Why do you continue to focus on comparing percentages of vaccinated and unvaccinated who are hospitalized or in the ICU? I just can't get my head around how you understand and appreciate the seatbelt analogy but seem unable to apply it to the ICU situation.



As you'll recall, you and I have found broad agreement on a few topics discussed here in the forum, but I'm starting to suspect