Chat America’s Contract with Black Americans

Hornet

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Ok, I didn’t want derail the Derek Chauvin thread. This is a monologue from Trever Noah after the George Floyd killing. He talks other issues but starting around the 7 minute mark he gets into the George Floyd killing and then riots and looting, etc. I feel he sums it up perfectly when he discusses “society” where “society is a contract that all Americans agree to terms of behaviour and rules and what is acceptable and what isn’t (laws). He postulates that riots and looting are a result of “society” breaking its contract with Black Americans where “society” is not living up to its side of the agreement of inclusivity and equal rights with Black Americans so the riots and looting are then a direct result of that broken contract. Now those outside that group, White Americans, will argue that they have equal rights but Black Americans would disagree. And since the contract dispute is between “society” and Black Americans, then White Americans have a different perception and may be very vocal about it but ultimately are just a 3rd party in the dispute that should have no more or less say in the matter than Asian Americans, Brown Americans, Native Americans, Latin Americans, etc. that are all equal parties to that contract.

 
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Thanks for posting this. I watched the whole thing because though I believe Noah is a thoughtful and sincere guy. He also gets things absolutely wrong on a pretty consistent basis. He gets facts wrong and therefore derives wrong conclusions. I understand why he believes what he believes, but I maintain that any objective review of facts that are readily available to anyone who cares look for them show quite conclusively that he is wrong in the picture he draws of modern America.

Let's begin with something he gets right. Society most certainly is a type of contract and because of racism, black people in America have historically not been able to participate fully in society and have suffered due to systemic injustices. I don't know any reasonable person who would disagree with that assessment of American history. But to hear Noah and his ilk, you would think there had been no progress since 1619 when the first black slaves were brought to the continent. Since 1968 black people have been equal under the law. From the civil rights act on, it has been illegal to discriminate based on race. That is, racism was taken out of the system of laws which set the rules for how we live with each other. I don't for a second suggest that racism was eliminated. I do say however that with the passing of the Civil Righst Act a last major step was taken in fulfilling the promise made by Jefferson to all future Americans, that all men are created equal and entitled to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

But Noah (representing the majority view), looks around and says, "wait, blacks are still poorer, still being disproportionately killed by police, living with crime, lagging in education, therefore systemic racism still exists". This is where he goes wrong. The facts do not support the conclusion that disparate outcomes in society are due to racism. If that were true, you would not see almost every immigrant group-including from some black societies-outperform multi-generaltional black Americans and in many instances out performing whites.

If you want to begin to understand why black men are killed by police at 2.5 times the rate of white men, don't be lazy and just chalk it up to "systemic racism". Instead, ask why police are coming into contact with black men at so much higher rates than they do with other groups. Look into why those interactions are happening. I've shared these stats before, but really consider them seriously. Police kill about 1000 people per year in the U.S. Of that number, about half are white, 25% are black and the other 25% are latino and mixed. Of the number of blacks killed by police--about 250--less than 10% are unarmed. Weigh that against the millions and millions of interactions police have with black people each year and then explain to me how we live in a society where blacks are justified in believing that it's open season on them, that they are at risk of police violence every time the go out doors. Again, i don't say that there aren't horror stories and bad cops, but anecdotes are not science. If you go by the stats, the problem that Noah is almost moved to tears on does not exist.
 
The solution for African Americans is simple: in order to get ahead in life, do and live as the East Asians in America do.
Surefire way for Blacks to succeed.
100% agree (and so much more succinct than my post)
 
Is he going to characterize those nutjobs storming the Capitol as the voice of the unheard too?

There are serious problems with race in the U.S, Canada and globally, but I reject the notion that it's THE defining individual trait within society and therefore responsible for most of society's ills. Yes, black people (men, specifically) are disproportionately abused, arrested, killed, etc. by police than other groups. Is it happening on some epidemic scale? No, absolutely not and the data shows that. We're talking 200-300 (roughly 10% unarmed) annually in a country of over 300 million. That's less than the number of people dying in mass shootings, less than 1/4 of child homicides and certainly less than the 40,000 gun deaths every year.

Of course we can be upset about 2 different things at once, but the centrality of race is any conversation is just deafening.
 
Equity and equality are not the same thing. If you have been afforded the same rights and opportunities under the law but do not achieve the same outcome as someone else, you cannot just lazily blame it on systemic racism.

Some idiots will say you cannot make it in America if you're not white. When East Asians and East Indians obliterate that thoughtless argument by dominating the top tier of the tax bracket, blacks will then change the argument to the system solely being built against them and no one else. So what is it? If some people of colour from other countries came to the U.S. without a firm grasp of the English language but were able to thrive economically, then what is stopping an ethnic group of multi-generational Americans from doing the same?
 
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Equity and equality are not the same thing. If you have been afforded the same rights and opportunities under the law but do not achieve the same outcome as someone else, you cannot just lazily blame it on systemic racism.

Some idiots will say you cannot make it in America if you're not white. When East Asians and East Indians obliterate that thoughtless argument by dominating the top tier of the tax bracket, blacks will then change the argument to the system solely being built against them and no one else. So what is it? If some people of colour from other countries came to the U.S. without a firm grasp of the English language but were able to thrive economically, then what is stopping an ethnic group of multi-generational Americans from doing the same?

The data is even more compelling than that. Blacks emigrating from Africa to the U.S. are actually quite successful in America. For example, the level of home ownership and higher education among immigrants from Africa is significantly higher than for immigrants from the Caribbean and native born blacks. If racism is the culprit, we need to understand the why and how of it, but in the current climate it is impossible to have an honest discussion. Strangely, people take issue with immediately being labelled as "racist" is they bring any of these facts up.

People choose the "feely" arguments all the time, because the implications behind the stats are uncomfortable. Basically, choices matter and as a group, native born blacks in America do not on average make very good ones. I know that last sentence will be taken as evidence of me being a racist, but that just proves my point. I'm merely citing a stat. People base their "knowledge" on this issue far more on things like the long silent painful pauses in speeches like Noah's and almost not at all on actual facts. Ironically, this attitude winds up hurting black people.
 
The data is even more compelling than that. Blacks emigrating from Africa to the U.S. are actually quite successful in America. For example, the level of home ownership and higher education among immigrants from Africa is significantly higher than for immigrants from the Caribbean and native born blacks. If racism is the culprit, we need to understand the why and how of it, but in the current climate it is impossible to have an honest discussion. Strangely, people take issue with immediately being labelled as "racist" is they bring any of these facts up.

People choose the "feely" arguments all the time, because the implications behind the stats are uncomfortable. Basically, choices matter and as a group, native born blacks in America do not on average make very good ones. I know that last sentence will be taken as evidence of me being a racist, but that just proves my point. I'm merely citing a stat. People base their "knowledge" on this issue far more on things like the long silent painful pauses in speeches like Noah's and almost not at all on actual facts. Ironically, this attitude winds up hurting black people.

Nigerians, just to name one group, are known to be very hardworking, entrepreneurial people. Just like East Indians, a lot of their young ones come here on student visas and go on to dominate the job market or start businesses. As you said, it's mostly Carribean immigrants or American-born blacks (a lot of whom are also of Carribean descent) who seem to represent a lot of the negative aspects of a particular subculture. The sad thing is, it's even evident here in the GTA. Think of all the names of the most undesirable neighbourhoods in Toronto alone that people throw around and unsympathetically laugh at. And then think of who inhabits those spaces. It's very sad and poignant but it's true. It's only amplified more in the U.S.
 
Nigerians, just to name one group, are known to be very hardworking, entrepreneurial people. Just like East Indians, a lot of their young ones come here on student visas and go on to dominate the job market or start businesses. As you said, it's mostly Carribean immigrants or American-born blacks (a lot of whom are also of Carribean descent) who seem to represent a lot of the negative aspects of a particular subculture. The sad thing is, it's even evident here in the GTA. Think of all the names of the most undesirable neighbourhoods in Toronto alone that people throw around and unsympathetically laugh at. And then think of who inhabits those spaces. It's very sad and poignant but it's true. It's only amplified more in the U.S.

Agreed. Immigrants where they have the nuclear family - mother, father, kids that are offspring of both parents - and have maintained strong ties to their heritage, like South American, African or European descent have fared pretty well. They are hard-working, religious, and well educated. We live in an area with a large, ecclectic mix of nationalities. The gang-banging, drug dealing, father five kids with four different women types have not.
 
No matter what the social contract is, what the stats are, nothing excuses the looting. Looting is just opportunistic thieving. Rioting comes when mass hysteria (or anger) reaches a boiling point, and in those emotionally charged situations, can be contagious.

Personally, I feel that media is just as much to blame as "the system". Stop making movies and TV shows that continually portrays black people as gangsters and pimps. Stop idiotic rappers from making it alright to perpetuate the gangster lifestyle and throwing around the "n" word in every breath. Stop portraying black women as all being stuck up big bottomed gangster girlfriends looking for their next trick or blow.

It's like how media (movies and TV) keep portraying sex workers as cheap drug addicted trailer trash. You want to change public opinion? Start with changing what and how we get our entertainment. Radio, TV and now the Internet are very powerful tools and go a long way to shape how society evolves.
 
No matter what the social contract is, what the stats are, nothing excuses the looting. Looting is just opportunistic thieving. Rioting comes when mass hysteria (or anger) reaches a boiling point, and in those emotionally charged situations, can be contagious.

Personally, I feel that media is just as much to blame as "the system". Stop making movies and TV shows that continually portrays black people as gangsters and pimps. Stop idiotic rappers from making it alright to perpetuate the gangster lifestyle and throwing around the "n" word in every breath. Stop portraying black women as all being stuck up big bottomed gangster girlfriends looking for their next trick or blow.

It's like how media (movies and TV) keep portraying sex workers as cheap drug addicted trailer trash. You want to change public opinion? Start with changing what and how we get our entertainment. Radio, TV and now the Internet are very powerful tools and go a long way to shape how society evolves.

Yes, stop the dumb racial stereotypes in the media.

I want to add to what you said because a lot of people especially Canadians don’t understand is. A lot of those rappers are not from the “hood”. They come from middle class or above families. It’s all an act. The rapper lil John for example. For those who might not know him. He’s the guy who became popular for saying “whattttt” and “ookkkk”. He went to a private out of state college which costs 50k a year. He found out he could make millions putting on an act. Because that’s what record companies want.
 
Agreed. Immigrants where they have the nuclear family - mother, father, kids that are offspring of both parents - and have maintained strong ties to their heritage, like South American, African or European descent have fared pretty well. They are hard-working, religious, and well educated. We live in an area with a large, ecclectic mix of nationalities. The gang-banging, drug dealing, father five kids with four different women types have not.

A nuclear family is not a guarantee but it sure gives you a better shot at life. Having a father sure beats looking at all the wrong places for male role models. Your mother cannot teach you how to be a man. Nothing beats good old family values. Nothing beats having 2 parents who will encourage you to put a premium on education instead of banking your entire future on a career as a rapper or baller.
 
So-called black culture has to be rebuilt from the ground up otherwise it will always be dysfunctional and victim-oriented. Unfortunately, no one really knows how to do this.
 
Equity and equality are not the same thing. If you have been afforded the same rights and opportunities under the law but do not achieve the same outcome as someone else, you cannot just lazily blame it on systemic racism.

Some idiots will say you cannot make it in America if you're not white. When East Asians and East Indians obliterate that thoughtless argument by dominating the top tier of the tax bracket, blacks will then change the argument to the system solely being built against them and no one else. So what is it? If some people of colour from other countries came to the U.S. without a firm grasp of the English language but were able to thrive economically, then what is stopping an ethnic group of multi-generational Americans from doing the same?
Well that’s because niggers are lazy pieces of garbage
 
We should just just let the animals kill each other !
 
No matter what the social contract is, what the stats are, nothing excuses the looting. Looting is just opportunistic thieving. Rioting comes when mass hysteria (or anger) reaches a boiling point, and in those emotionally charged situations, can be contagious.

Personally, I feel that media is just as much to blame as "the system". Stop making movies and TV shows that continually portrays black people as gangsters and pimps. Stop idiotic rappers from making it alright to perpetuate the gangster lifestyle and throwing around the "n" word in every breath. Stop portraying black women as all being stuck up big bottomed gangster girlfriends looking for their next trick or blow.

It's like how media (movies and TV) keep portraying sex workers as cheap drug addicted trailer trash. You want to change public opinion? Start with changing what and how we get our entertainment. Radio, TV and now the Internet are very powerful tools and go a long way to shape how society evolves.
not to mention news media...!
 
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    Phoenix Blossom spa ♨️♨️♨️ table shower body scrub 👍👍👍We have 3 beautiful young girls working today, young and lovely new girl Suki and Tiffany Specialising in table shower body scrub massages and offering deep massages Cici🤗🤗🤗🤗5124 Dundas St W Etobicoke.Please call ☎️416-817-3366 to book and Walk in the back door there is plenty of parking available
  28. Red Rose Spa:
    🌸 We have 5 hot brown girls today 🌸 PAYAL PEARL, MONIKA, NIMRAT, PAOLA, RAVEN, MALIYA, AAVI, KANIKA, KIRAN 🌸 2588 Birchmount 🌸 2 Invergordon 🌸 647-702-8800 🌸 Please visit for a great erotic massage
  29. Moon203:
    MoonMoon spa/416 887 8801/8131Yonge st Turkish Persian girl &big boobs BoBo in Friday and Saturday
  30. KSpa:
    FRIDAY at 𝐊 𝐒𝐏𝐀: HELEN, SUKI & CINDY. Unit B6-4227 Sheppard Ave East Scarborough, ON (Just East of Midland Ave) ☎️ 𝟲𝟰𝟳-𝟳𝟵𝟮-𝟳𝟱𝟲𝟴 ☎️ HELEN is a pretty Chinese babe, 24, 5’3” & 115 Lbs, can provide good services. SUKI is 23, 5’2” & 100 Lbs, 34C with a slim & sweet sexy body. CINDY is slim & pretty with a 5’3” sexy body, big boobs 34D, and a nice curvy bum. Cindy can relax all your cares
  31. SunriseRH:
    FRIDAY at 𝗦𝗨𝗡𝗥𝗜𝗦𝗘 𝗦𝗣𝗔: EMMA & SUMMER. 10 East Wilmot St, Unit 27, Richmond Hill, on ☎️ 𝟲𝟰𝟳-𝟯𝟮𝟱-𝟴𝟬𝟴𝟲 ☎️ EMMA is a very young girl from Portugal, tall, skinny & beautiful. SUMMER is an incredibly sweet Asian babe, 5’3” with a captivating 36D-28-39 figure, weighing 108 pounds. Summer has very good massage & services.
  32. NewOriental:
    FRIDAY at 🍏💚𝗡𝗘𝗪 𝗢𝗥𝗜𝗘𝗡𝗧𝗔𝗟 𝗦𝗣𝗔💚🍏: HAPPY, HELEN & PHOENIX. 10 East Wilmot St, Unit 26, Richmond Hill, on ☎️ 𝟲𝟰𝟳-𝟯𝟴𝟭-𝟮𝟲𝟴𝟴 ☎️ HAPPY is a slim & busty Korean lady with great massage skills & lots of extra fun. HELEN is a young, slim & very sexy Vietnamese lady. She not only looks good, she IS good. PHOENIX is a gentle sweet Filipina lady, 5’4” and 105Lbs
  33. Red Rose Spa:
    🌸 We have 5 hot brown girls today 🌸 LUCY, ASHA, NISHA, AMANDA, MAY, SARIKA, KIRAN, SANA 🌸 2588 Birchmount 🌸 2 Invergordon 🌸 647-702-8800 🌸 Please visit for a great erotic massage
  34. ASPA:
    𝗙𝗥𝗜𝗗𝗔𝗬 𝗮𝘁 𝗔 𝗦𝗣𝗔: 𝗔𝗺𝘆 & 𝗯𝗲𝘀𝘁 𝗺𝗮𝘀𝘀𝗮𝗴𝗲 𝗥𝗮𝗰𝗵𝗲𝗹 🅰️𝐀 𝐒𝐏𝐀🅰️, 28 South Unionville Ave, Unit 5, Markham. 🅰️𝗖𝗮𝗹𝗹 𝟲𝟰𝟳-𝟳𝟮𝟵-𝟲𝟲𝟬𝟲 𝗼𝗿 𝘁𝗲𝘅𝘁 𝟲𝟰𝟳-𝟴𝟯𝟵-𝟱𝟵𝟲𝟲🅰️ AMY is young and very friendly, standing 158 Cms. with 34C Cups and a very nice bum. Amy is a very popular student, young, sexy, and open minded. She is in demand for her good massage
  35. HolidaySpa:
    Friday at 🌴😎🌅𝓗𝓸𝓵𝓲𝓭𝓪𝔂 𝓢𝓹𝓪🌅😎🌴3517 Kennedy Rd, Unit 4, Scarborough ☎️𝟰𝟯𝟳-𝟮𝟰𝟳-𝟭𝟭𝟵𝟵☎️Cindy & Lina Cindy is a slim & incredibly sexy lady with a smile that will melt your heart, & an ass that will fire up your spirit. Her services are among the best! Lina is very well known for her great services and her impressive shapely ass. Come and see why! You will be glad you did.
  36. ForeverWarden:
    Friday at 🫦❤️🔴🟥♾️𝓕𝓞𝓡𝓔𝓥𝓔𝓡 𝓢𝓟𝓐♾️🟥🔴❤️🫦 2190 Warden Ave, Unit 201, Scarborough 𝟰𝟭𝟲-𝟴𝟬𝟬-𝟳𝟴𝟴𝟳: Cindy, Mia, Nana & Sasa. Cindy is a slim beauty, 5’4”, natural C Cups & wonderfully long nipples. Her massage is nice, her bbbj will drive you wild & her cfs finish is a dream come true. Mia is a Caribbean service queen temptress with incredible curves. She can bbbj like a queen, & is open to dfk & cfs.
  37. Sparkling Spa:
    ⚡🌟SPARKLING SPA⚡🌟 ✅50 Lockridge Ave Unit 8✅ 👌Markham, ON L3R 8X4👌 ☎️(905) 604-8186 Spa Land Line☎️ ☎️(437) 446-6688 NEW Spa Cell Phone☎️ (West of Warden & 16th Ave) OPEN 10am to 9pm MONDAY to SUNDAY 🔥✅NEW MANAGEMENT💯NEW GIRLS🔥SUPERSTAR SERVICE QUEENS AVAILABLE AT SPARKLING SPA FOR ALL YOUR MASSAGE AND SPECIAL EXTRA NEEDS🔥💯😘🔥❤️👌 🔥SEXY NEW YOUNG GIRLS ALWAYS WORKING - Today’s Schedule is…🔥 Zoe - 🔥Stunning Tall Taiwanese Service Queen with Endless Passion and Sensuality who Wa
  38. Lily Spa:
    ❤️ SARIKA, CAMILLA and KK are here today for your massage needs ❤️ Lily Spa ❤️ 2190 McNicoll ❤️ Scarborough ❤️ M1V 5M2 ❤️ (647) 531-8288 ❤️
  39. SugarLoveSpa:
    Friday at 𝗦𝗨𝗚𝗔𝗥 𝗟𝗢𝗩𝗘 𝗦𝗣𝗔: Ashley & Tiffany. 1270 Finch Ave W (at Keele St), Unit 18. North York, ON ☎ 𝟰𝟯𝟳-𝟯𝟲𝟱-𝟮𝟲𝟴𝟴 ☎ ASHLEY is a beautiful fair skinned Spanish mix lady with D boobs, and a full menu to please you. TIFFANY is an amazing slim petite doll with natural 34C melons, slim waist, & a cute little booty. Tiffany has incredible bbbj skills, tastes as sweet as honey, and can drive you wild.
  40. Moneylee:
    All season wellness center : New Young girl big breasted beautiful buttocks charming temperament big boobs Michelle,young girl pretty face nice figure Thai deep massage Sonia,Young girl big breasted beautiful buttocks charming temperament big boobs Yoyo,Young girl Big breasted saucy naughty Ella ,Enchanting sexy petite deep massage Sherry 🏠address: #5-30 Rambler dr Brampton ,Ontario L6W 1E2☎️4376655510 👅👅🦵🦵🈵🈵👄👄
  41. Moneylee:
    Full season wellness center: New Young girl big breasted beautiful buttocks charming temperament big boobs Cici , Young girl pretty face big boobs nice figure deep massage Jessica ,Young girl Big-breasted big Big boobs big butts May, Young beautiful face sexy body and good deep massage Maggie,Enchanting sexy petite deep massage Mary . 🏠 2560 Shepard Ave Mississauga unit 1 ☎️ 4379857899 👄👄🦵🦵🈵🈵👅👅
  42. Dreaminn:
    FRIDAY at 💭𝗗𝗥𝗘𝗔𝗠 𝗜𝗡𝗡 𝗪𝗘𝗟𝗟𝗡𝗘𝗦𝗦 𝗦𝗣𝗔💭: EMILY, KELLY & TINA. 10225 Yonge St (North of Major Mackenzie), Richmond Hill, ON ☎️ 𝟲𝟰𝟳-𝟴𝟮𝟵-𝟮𝟵𝟴𝟯 ☎️ EMILY is a tall Chinese girl, 170Cms with nice natural C Cups and long brown hair. Emily is open minded and very friendly. KELLY is a young & pretty Asian girl, very slim model figure, 5’3” with unreal bbbj skills & very liberal services.
  43. Jenny’s Spa:
    🎉🍒JENNY’S SPA🎉🍒 ✅5170 DUNDAS STREET WEST✅ 👌ETOBICOKE ONTARIO M9A 1C4👌 ☎️(647-893-5196)☎️Call or Text ☎️(437-888-3759)☎️Call Only (ETOBICOKE) OPEN 10am to 9pm MONDAY to SUNDAY 🔥✅GRAND OPENING💯NEW GIRLS EVERYDAY🔥EXCELLENT MASSAGE + SERVICE QUEENS NOW AVAILABLE AT JENNY’S SPA FOR ALL YOUR MASSAGE AND SPECIAL EXTRA NEEDS🔥💯😘🔥❤️👌 🔥TWO BEAUTIFUL NEW YOUNG ASIAN GIRLS EVERYDAY🔥 💯REAL PICTURES OF ATTENDANTS💯 🔥TODAY’s ROSTER INCLUDES: Anna😘- A stunning sexy girl from Hong Kong
  44. Annie Spa:
    🎉🍒ANNIE SPA🎉🍒 ✅7-1001 SANDHURST CIRCLE✅ 👌SCARBOROUGH ON M1V 1Z6👌 ☎️(647) 891-9688☎️ ☎️(416) 291-8879☎️ (FINCH & MCCOWAN) OPEN 10am to 9pm MONDAY to SUNDAY 🔥✅NEW MANAGEMENT💯NEW GIRLS🔥🔥 🔥GORGEOUS NEW YOUNG ASIAN GIRLS - TODAY’s ROSTER INCLUDES: 🔥 Yoyo 😍is beautiful tall sexy student. She has nice bum and very good massage and has great playful service. Such a beautiful sexy smile. She knows how too please you with her slim sexy body and bring joy and happiness😍Real pictures of Y
  45. bnwellness_wilson:
    Blue Nile Wellness Center, we have 4 young beautiful girls are working today, young sweet student Summer and young cute Tina with Curve body, sexy Coco and pretty GFE Lina are providing deep tissue and sensual massage, pls call 416-3985777 book appointment and walk in aways welcome, back entrance and parking available, 350 Wilson Ave North York
  46. Endless Joy Spa:
    ✨✨✨✨✨[GRAND OPENING]✨✨✨✨✨ 💞Endless Joy Spa💞 🎇 (155 East Beaver Creek Rd Unit #8, Richmond Hill) 416-731-8565🎇10am-2am, Young Slim Sexy Chinese Yoyo, Young Sexy Slim Chinese Emma, Young Slim Thai Janice, Young Sexy CBC Rachel. Slim Sexy Chinese Kiki, Tall Slim Sexy Chinese Kelly, Young Sexy Chinese Abie.
  47. Lulu1980:
    Phoenix Blossom spa ♨️♨️♨️ table shower body scrub 👍👍👍We have 3 beautiful young girls working today, young and lovely Mia and Jenny Specialising in table shower body scrub massages and offering deep massages Cici🤗🤗🤗🤗5124 Dundas St W Etobicoke.Please call ☎️416-817-3366 to book and Walk in the back door there is plenty of parking available
  48. normaljob12:
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  49. kiara445:
    K spa
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