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Clinique Carmen 5221 Maisonneuve W. (514) 483-3362

jesssiccaah

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Located in a commercial building on second floor,just opened 2 weeks ago.Everything is new ,shower in each room (3 rooms),no waiting outside ,just walk in .Russian owned and operated.There are two to three girls working,Laura,Marsha,both are cute ,about 25 yrs old,nice bodies,and there is another Russian women in her late 30's or early 40's,nice face, long dirty blonde hair,seems to have more expierence in the massage scene.Well I ended up with Laura , She walks in with NO hi ,my name is Laura,or how are you,and no SMILE:short brown hair,5 ft.4 120 lbs ,34 b or c very pretty face.Laura is very heavy with the oil and has no idea what a massage is about.She just paints you like a wall with her oil.She does not know what a smile is,neither does she know how to speak to a client to make him comfortable.When it was time to flip,she did a little teasing to get bobo up and thats when I said thats enough my time is up,I will take my shower now thank you. She totally pissed me off with attiude.She is not customer friendly.Anyone else been here ?
 
This is a relatively new place on Decarie, between de Maisonneuve and Sherbrooke St. I found myself in the neighbourhood earlier today so I called them up and asked if Anna was avaiable in a few minutes. She was, so I hurried right over.

This was my first visit here (but I'm a long-time hobbyist) and the place is really nice. Good location, easy parking (on the street or in their lot). It's the only commercial building on the block and there's an interesting Asian grocery store on the main floor. Anyway there is almost no sign as you go up to the second floor and a good thing is that you're not out in the open in front of a huge "massage" sign waiting to be let in. Discrete is good.

The place is new and very nicely set up. The rooms are spotless and each has a shower. The massage table was a little shakey (and squeeked when I moved onto it) but it was solid enough. Clean covers on the table.

I had recently come from the gym and showered there so I didn't need a shower and I only had to wait a minute or two on the table before Anna came in and introduced herself.

She's tall (maybe 5'9") and guessing a very solid 130 lbs. She's not fat, but she's solid and has a bit of a belly. Her skin feels tight... almost like a ripe fruit ready to burst out. Overall looks I'd rate as perhaps 6 or 7 out of 10. Her outstanding feature though (in my opinion) is her pear-shaped breasts with long (and responsive) nipples. This's one of my weaknesses, and the rest of her could have been ugly for all I cared.

Anyway, I only had an hour and had to return to work and I didn't think I'd have time for a shower afterwards (and perhaps have wet hair and get questions from the guys I work with) so I asked Anna not to use any oil (for the main part of the massage) but to give me a soft and sensual massage.

I could tell right away that Anna knows what she's doing with massage. She has strong hands and knows how to use them well. Next time (IF there's a next time) I'll try to see her when I have more time and get the oil and the works. She's really quite good.

Anyway it was only a few minutes before she asked me if I'd like to hear about her options. Of course! She had standard $40, $60 and $80 with the last one being a nude "thai that isn't really a thai" (according to her). The
first option was a topless HJ, then nude HJ and then her so-called thai. I told her what I wanted was for her to get nude and to give me a long slow HJ. No problem she said. So she stripped down to her g-string (what the heck is it with these girls who think wearing a g-string counts as being nude?).

She continued massaging me in a more sensuous way although there was absolutely no teasing or touching or even brushing of the uh, important parts. Just the same it was good and we were chatting all the time. She moved up to my head and reached out to rub my back she asked me if I like to give massages. I told her that I did indeed and she said I could give her a massage also. I started to gently caresss her but said that perhaps I'd give her a massage next time when I'd book longer than just an hour. A few minutes later she told me again that I could massage her. That's when I rolled over while she was still up around my head. Right away she moved down and started rubbing my upper thighs and belly. Slowly she got closer to mr. willy and then started lightly brushing her hands over it. She then asked if she could use oil there and of course I said yes. Anyway, her technique was quite good, slow and sensuous with a lot of ball-play. I asked her to sit up on the table between my legs and continue, which she did.

All very good and she responded very well to my requests for faster or slower etc. Only problem was that instead of looking at me (which could be very sexy if done right) she was looking off into space with a totally bored expression on her face and that really ruined it for me. If she'd only been a little more warm, and "into" it, it would have been a GFE, but it fell flat in that regard. I eventually had to concentrate really hard for the final and with someone really good I'd be concentrating hard to try to make it last instead. She then handed me a bunch of tissues for me to clean up with (loss of points here also).

She's got a great touch and incredible nipples but the experience was too impersonal and lacking in warmth. Of course YMMV, but I really doubt if I'd bother trying to see her again unless I was in the area and really really needed those services. There are certainly a lot of better options out there. Tipped her the required $60 and went back to work.
 
Tim D,very good review,but there is already a thread on Clinique Carmen,look up the search .Bye the way ,I started the thread with a bad review but things seem to have changed here.for the better.
 
Hotdog... for several days now there seems to be something wrong with the search function here... and when you hit the forum Explorer's status bar reports "Done, but with errors". Nothing happens when you click on the search functions.

In any case, I had (and did again) looked back through the visible 4 pages of messages on this board and there's nothing there with Carmen in the title so I was pretty sure there wasn't an existing thread. Plus I read the stuff here every day or two and would have seen it.

I know there's something on another board (where I'm unable to post) but apologize if there was an existing thread here that I couldn't find.

Cheers!
 
TimD you are right the, this forum search function is not working.Administration, please check it out. Thanks.
 
Fred is well aware of the problem, and he's currently working with vBulletin tech support in order to find a solution.

In the meantime, you can all have access to the search function from the main page.

Sorry for the inconvenience.

M2

PS: Let's stop highjacking this thread (me included)... This thread should be about reviews of Clinique Carmen. ;)
 
I was in the area so I decided to give the place a try. I called from the phone number in the window. This young woman answered and said that she was available to give a massage so I said that I would be there in a few minutes. I parked and walked upstairs. THe place is nicely put together and clean. The young lady greeted me and showed me to a room. I asked for 45 min. which she quoted me $45 for which I paid her. I got ready and waited for her to come back. I believe her name was Anna, a Russian girl of about 5'9" 130 lb., well built like an Amazon. She started with the legs and butt and after a few minutes let me know of the "options" 40,$60,$80 which I took the $80(naked tai) for $70 since it was only 45 min.
The massage was o.k., nothing special. She got up on the table and rubbed my back and butt and legs with her boobs and body with a lot of power. She then asked me to turn over and she got up on the table and did the same thing on the front. She seems to be very mechanical and then she finished off with a hand job that was not overly inspiring till I came. She then gave me kleenex to wipe and said that the session was over. I looked at the clock and saw that only 25 min. had expired. I asked her to continue to massage and she did till the time was up.

It was o.k. but I would not repeat or recommend unless you were desparate.
 
went to clinique carmen a few days ago, and i was surprise! The place is pretty nice, and big compared to places like Kama and Isis! Plus its in a commercial building, when you go in, its not like everyone knows what you are doing!
The MP that I saw, was 5"5 maybe 110 pds, russian! I think her name was misha, but I forgot... :( I took a 30min sampler, for 40$! The room was really nice, with a shower in every room (i think... didnt check them all)! She asked me what I wanted like massage, I said medium. I was more of a rub than a massage, but it was one of the best rubs I have ever gotten! Better than some "massages". She then asked me to flip, and asked me if I wanted to be "massaged there". I told her yep! She asked me if she could undress, and I wasn't going to say know... she even asked me to touch her!! No restrictions! Only negative, she had her back to me :( I could touch her better, but there was no eye contact. When its over, she cleans me up with a hot towel, very very nice!
Finaly, I take a shower she leave for 2 min! She gets back when Im fully dressed! We chit chat, and before I leave I give her a tip --> 60$. She counts it, and, the first time I ever hear this: its too much, and give me a 20 back! And I told her, are you sure? its ok! but she didn't want to keep it!!

So total: 80$ for a good 30min!
body: 2.5-3/5
service: 3.5/5
attitude: 5/5!!
 
dropped in recently at Clinique Carmen=
Agree with your post MTLMAN as to the cleanliness and size of this "JOINT"
however I think a switheroo was pulled. Could you give a detailed description of your MISHA because mine had nothing in common. She had a pot belly , probably 130-150 lbs -large breasts which i chose not to see..long hair, tatoo well over 40 and after some initial teasing became very $$$ hungry.
face and body 2/5
attitute 3/5
massage skills 3/5

awaiting your answer

henry
 
Hi,

I went there for the second time ever yesterday.
Despite the fact that I arrived 5 minutes later then apointment I was warmly greeted by a 30 y/o chubby red headed Ukranian woman wearing a sexy low cut dress.
Her name's Sylvia and she took good care of me for an hour.
Her massage technique is quite good,she asked me what kind of massage I wanted I answerd swedish-medium.And she delivered.She definetely has experiance and covers the whole body neglecting no part.
Then she switches to sensual,and her sensuality seems so natural,not forced, like some mp's tend to do just to make us spit the juice as fast as possible.
Anyway come fliptime willy was at guard and ready to shoot!
She asked me if I wanted her to take off her dress but I refused saying she looks sexy in it.She warmly thanked me for the compliment.
Then caressed my bazooka until it blew out.She then wiped me off with a hot watered towel to resume the massage for the last 10 minutes of payed time.
I gave her more than the usual 20 cause I really apreciated her dedication,attitude and overall service.NOT BECAUSE OF EXTRA MILAGE.
The only draw-back were the 2 times she left the room to answer the door!:(
Can they hire a receptionnist?
COSMOROCK
 
I've been going to this place "regulary" for the last few months, always seeing masha, when Im horny. I don't go here for the massage because it isn't that great, and she knows why I come also! Most of the session are the same: I take a half hour, shower and in she comes! She starts a "massage" which is more caresses than anything else, and after 10min she tells me to filp! Most of the time, I undress her, suck on her nipple, digits, LFK, and finish russian with her on the table and me on top! Lots of fun!
I tip between 30 and 50 depending on the mood, and everyone is happy!
 
I myself mostly prefer east european masseuse,
The true fact is that you can get a full course menue with 1 out of 3 masseuse if not more. But do not try to buy them - just be charming - the rest will come , so to speak...
Usually when that happens, you keep it quiet....
But this place has a number of accomodating masseuses, depending on their mood and who the person is and economics ($..)...

To bad we read a lot about bad adventures
Masha is good, so was Marie (is she still around?)

But goodness varies
No wonder places that deliver consistent services like St-Thimotée are very very busy.
St-T is now open on week-ends & advertise also a male masseur!

Back to clinique Carmen; yes, their have some gems there
and others at similar east euro places...like the one on Monkland near Royal street...
 
Just my opinion here, to me this is also part of dedication and attitude. I've been at this way too long to realize they shoud NEVER leave the room as you are priority 'numero uno' for the hour. (Unless there is a personal emergency...) but anyway...$20 or whatever else you give, as long as YOU are satisfied...vive la difference....
 
I totally agree, if the masseuse is alone in the salon and/or has to tend to the phone....its mostly a no go situation.

If she is alone in the salon and the entrance door is not locked, she cannot really get close & personal...

But I have had instances where she locks the front door and does not answer the phone.
Then if someone comes to the door, she has time to get herself together.

But mostly its no good if the masseuse is alone in a salon, unless its her private place,

Then again she has to stay away from the phone calls...

manners, manners, manners.....
 
Hi

I went back yesterday and had Marsha.
She's been described a few times before so won't go into details.She greeted me wearing a sexy white low cut dress,her hair pulled back and a huge smile!:) Man I like those typical russian high cheek bones!(even though she's from khazakstan,she's russian).
She asked me what kind of massage I wanted and I said medium/soft swedish.
She delivered it with professionalism,enthusiasm and sensuality that is hard to come by these days.She is very talkative and friendly.
After fliptime she asked if I wanted complete to wich I answered ''DA"!:cool:
She sat besides me turning her back but letting me caresse her gently while she took good care of little cosmo.
I came early:eek: -I was so horny thanks to her looks and attitude.Friendlieness turns me on!
I was ready to hit the shower but she then offered to resume the session ,since I still had 10 minutes left.
Another point in her favor.
Left with a big smile on my face...:D :p
ciao!
 
Yeah she does that all the time. She's very nice, very friendly, but does the turn 'her back on you' thing while stroking the goods. I once got her to do a half-hearted Thai slide.
 
Hotdog,
I think your review scared everybody. Nobody wants to go there.
 
thats not true, there is another thread somewhere! I go there from time to time, and there is other reviews also!
 
Mtlman2005,You are right ,my review was a long time ago.Things have changed at Carmen.The place is busy and they have some really good masseuses working there.I know Marsha and Sonia are recommended.There is another thread somewhere.:)
 
oops im sorry i hadn't notice the date... my bad... i just assumed that it was recent
 
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    We have 6 girls working at Reynaella wellness, 3555 14th Ave unit #7 Markham ☎️:905-470-8082
  27. Lulu1980:
    Good morning guys 🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹Phoenix blossom Spa ♨️♨️♨️♨️ There is a dining table and shower room 😘😘😘😘Body scrub is provided❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️Young girl, Yoyo is petite, gentle and cute🌹🌹🌹🌹Unique massage technique👍👍👍Professional body slide🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥, Cici and Helen have super massage techniques🌹🌹🌹5124 Dundas St W Etobicoke ☎️ 416-817-3366
  28. GoldenFlower:
    WEDNESDAY at 💛⭐🌟🌻 GOLDEN FLOWER SPA🌻 🌟⭐💛, 8380 Kennedy Rd, Unit C6 (Kennedy & Hwy 7), Markham, ON 905-258-0777: Kelly, Lucky, Monica & Sonia. After 7pm Jojo Kelly is slim and pretty with very good services. Lucky is a slim & beautiful Cambodian lady with a special touch. Monica is sweet, attractive and accommodating. Sonia comes from India with love.
  29. Jenny’s Spa:
    🎉🍒JENNY’S SPA🎉🍒 ✅5170 DUNDAS STREET WEST✅ 👌ETOBICOKE ONTARIO M9A 1C4👌 ☎️(647-893-5196)☎️Call or Text ☎️(437-888-3759)☎️Call Only (ETOBICOKE) OPEN 10am to 9pm MONDAY to SUNDAY 🔥✅GRAND OPENING💯NEW GIRLS EVERYDAY🔥EXCELLENT MASSAGE + SERVICE QUEENS NOW AVAILABLE AT JENNY’S SPA FOR ALL YOUR MASSAGE AND SPECIAL EXTRA NEEDS🔥💯😘🔥❤️👌 🔥TWO BEAUTIFUL NEW YOUNG ASIAN GIRLS EVERYDAY🔥REAL PICTURES OF ATTENDANTS💯💯💯 - TODAY’s ROSTER INCLUDES: 🔥 Mia😘- A young vibrant sexy girl
  30. Annie Spa:
    🎉🍒ANNIE SPA🎉🍒 ✅7-1001 SANDHURST CIRCLE✅ 👌SCARBOROUGH ON M1V 1Z6👌 ☎️(437) 818-8896☎️ ☎️(416) 291-8879☎️ (FINCH & MCCOWAN) OPEN 10am to 9pm MONDAY to SUNDAY 🔥✅NEW MANAGEMENT💯NEW GIRLS🔥🔥 🔥GORGEOUS NEW YOUNG ASIAN GIRLS - TODAY’s ROSTER INCLUDES: 🔥 Mia😍 beautiful young Singapore girl. Mia has a very sexy body, and beautiful boobs. She can give very good massage and great playful service. So very sexy beautiful girl. Kelly😘💕is beautiful young student, busty with sexy body
  31. Dreaminn:
    WEDNESDAY at 💭DREAM INN WELLNESS SPA💭: ANNA, DELIA & SUGAR 10225 Yonge St (North of Major Mackenzie) Richmond Hill, ON ☎️ 647-829-2983 ☎️ ANNA is Young, pretty, slim & very busty. Who could ask for more? You could! DELIA is young & very pretty, slim with natural boobs and an impressive ass. Her services are very satisfying. SUGAR is a sexy Asian
  32. Endless Joy Spa:
    ✨✨✨✨✨[GRAND OPENING]✨✨✨✨✨ 💞Endless Joy Spa💞 🎇 (155 East Beaver Creek Rd Unit #8, Richmond Hill) 416-731-8565🎇Slim Sexy Chinese Kiki, New First Day Slim Petite Judy, Tall Slim Sexy Chinese Vicky, Young Sexy Chinese Abie
  33. Moneylee:
    All season wellness center : young girl pretty face nice figure Thai deep massage Helen,Young girl big breasted beautiful buttocks charming temperament summer ,Young girl Big breasted saucy naughty Ella , Enchanting sexy petite deep massage Sherry ,address: #5-30 Rambler dr Brampton ,Ontario L6W 1E2☎️4376655510 👅👅🦵🦵🈵🈵👄👄
  34. ASPA:
    𝗪𝗘𝗗𝗡𝗘𝗦𝗗𝗔𝗬 at 𝐀 𝐒𝐏𝐀: Amy, Coco & 𝗯𝗲𝘀𝘁 𝗺𝗮𝘀𝘀𝗮𝗴𝗲 𝗥𝗮𝗰𝗵𝗲𝗹 🅰️𝐀 𝐒𝐏𝐀🅰️, 28 South Unionville Ave, Unit 5, Markham. 🅰️𝗖𝗮𝗹𝗹 𝟲𝟰𝟳-𝟳𝟮𝟵-𝟲𝟲𝟬𝟲 𝗼𝗿 𝘁𝗲𝘅𝘁 𝟲𝟰𝟳-𝟴𝟯𝟵-𝟱𝟵𝟲𝟲🅰️ A THOUSAND PLEASURES AWAIT: AMY is young and very friendly, standing 158 Cms. with 34C Cups and a very nice bum. Amy is a very popular student, young, sexy, and open
  35. Moneylee:
    Full season wellness center: Young girl big breasted beautiful buttocks charming temperament big boobs Julie ,Young girl big breasted beautiful buttocks charming temperament big boobs Nina ,Young girl Big-breasted big big butts Aris ,Young beautiful face sexy body and good deep massage maggie,Enchanting sexy petite deep massage Mary. 🏠 2560 Shepard ave Mississauga unit 1 ☎️ 4379857899 👄👄🦵🦵🈵🈵👅👅
  36. HolidaySpa:
    Wednesday at 🌴😎🌅𝓗𝓸𝓵𝓲𝓭𝓪𝔂 𝓢𝓹𝓪🌅😎🌴3517 Kennedy Rd, Unit 4, Scarborough ☎️𝟰𝟯𝟳-𝟮𝟰𝟳-𝟭𝟭𝟵𝟵☎️Kelly & Kiki. Kelly is slim and attractive with very slight curves, a nice bum, and rockin’ services. Kiki is very attractive, young, about 5’4” and 110 Lbs., slim with a banging body. Kiki is very popular for her great attitude and services.
  37. ForeverWarden:
    Wednesday at 🫦❤️🔴🟥♾️𝓕𝓞𝓡𝓔𝓥𝓔𝓡 𝓢𝓟𝓐♾️🟥🔴❤️🫦2190 Warden Ave, Unit 201, Scarborough 𝟰𝟭𝟲-𝟴𝟬𝟬-𝟳𝟴𝟴𝟳: Cindy, Bella & Sasa. Cindy is a slim beauty, 5’4”, natural C Cups & wonderfully long nipples. Her massage is nice, her bbbj will drive you wild & her cfs finish is a dream come true. Bella is around 5’3” with a thin to medium build, C Cups, and a pleasing personality. She can offer dfk, bbbj and cfs as well
  38. bnwellness_wilson:
    Blue Nile Wellness Center, We have 4 young beautiful girls are working today, young cute Amy and pretty friendly Cindy, sexy Coco and fun Lina open mind are providing deep tissue and sensual massage, pls call 416-3985777 book appointment and walk in always welcome, back entrance and parking available,350 Wilson Ave North York
  39. Lily Spa:
    ❤️ SANA, CAMILLA and KK are here today for your massage needs ❤️ Lily Spa ❤️ 2190 McNicoll ❤️ Scarborough ❤️ M1V 5M2 ❤️ (647) 531-8288 ❤️
  40. Moon&beauty:
    MoonMoon spa/416 887 8801/8131Yonge st #203 Turkish Persian girl and Asian girl (new) in today
  41. Peony Garden Spa:
    🌸3 GIRLS AVAILABLE TODAY 🌸 YOYO: A YOUNG SLIM SCHOOL GIRL, NEW TO THE BUSINESS WITH VERY NICE FACIAL FEATURES, VERY FLUENT IN ENGLISH 🌸 EMILY: A PETITE CURVY THAI MIXED GIRL THAT IS VERY FRIENDLY AND OPEN, VERY FLUENT IN ENGLISH 🌸 NITA: A YOUNG FUN SIZED INDIAN GIRL THAT, LONG BLACK HAIR AND VERY CHILL 🌸 PEONY GARDEN SPA 🌸 3477 KENNEDY ROAD UNIT 4 🌸 (416) 335-6093 🌸
  42. Red Rose Spa:
    🌸 We have 7 hot brown girls today 🌸 ASHA, MALIYA, MONIKA, NINA, AMANDA, DELILAH, SANA, AAVI, EVA, ANGEL 🌸 2588 Birchmount 🌸 2 Invergordon 🌸 647-702-8800 🌸 Please visit for a great erotic massage
  43. Sparkling Spa:
    JAV MODEL CHANEL, SASSY JENNIFER and SERVICE QUEEN ZOE @ Sparkling Spa👌MENTION OUR ADS AND RECEIVE A ROOM DISCOUNT $35 FOR 30MIN, $50 FOR 45MIN☎️(905) 604-8186 Spa Land Line☎️ ☎️(437) 446-6688 NEW Spa Cell Phone 50 LOCKRIDGE AVE UNIT#8
  44. bumika.vashi:
    (((आपको बिना नाटक या नखरे करने वाला सर्विस चाहे तोह याद करना. ))) If you want Service without Drama or Tantrums, Remember it. Will Try To Give You The Best Possible Sweating Experience With Full Company. TAKE MY WORD.?? Don't Waste Your Time And Money In Some Other Place Where You are Really Upset Loosing Out Both Money And Fun. Ok Try With Our Girls Once Then Your Visit Will Be Regular To Me.... _________________N O T E_________________ If u like my services Please Please Do not forget to
  45. Bellagio Wellness &Spa:
    💗💗💗 ℍ𝔸ℙℙ𝕐 𝔸ℙℝ𝕀𝕃 💗💗💗🌟🌟🌟 APRIL 17th , W͓̽E͓̽D͓̽N͓̽E͓̽S͓̽D͓̽A͓̽Y͓̽ 🌟🌟🌟 ☎️ (905) 707-6866 🕙🌟🌟🌟Open 10:30-10:00🗺#33-160 East Beaver Creek 🗺 7 Rms 🛏🌟🌟🌟Table Shower(TS)+Massage 2hr $120*,TS & massage 1hr $90, 🌟🌟🌟$40/50/60 for 30/45/60min 🌟🌟🌟Attendants: We have 6️⃣ today 🍀🍀🍀 🌹 SOPHIE 🌹🆕 DAISY 🌹 🆕 SUNNY 🌹🆕 TINA 🌹 ERICA 🌹 LUCY 🍀🍀🍀 NEWSFLASH 🍀🍀🍀 SOPHIE & 🆕 SUNNY & 🆕 TINA & 🌹 ERCA 🌹 🆕 DAISY ‘ s BACK 🍀🍀🍀 TODAY 🍀🍀🍀
  46. Bodytree:
    Massage7339
  47. Lulu1980:
    Hi guys 😘Phoenix blossom Spa 3 girls 🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹Jessica and Samantha and Cici sexy girl very good massage table shower body scrub 🌹🌹🌹5124 Dundas W Etobicoke ☎️416-817-3366
  48. Sparkling Spa:
    SEXY ZOE, NEW GIRL SASA AND KOREAN BLASIAN ALIYAH TODAY @ SPARKLING SPA!!! 50 Lockridge Ave Unit 8✅ 👌Markham, ON L3R 8X4👌 ☎️(905) 604-8186 Spa Land Line☎️ ☎️(437) 446-6688 NEW Spa Cell Phone☎️ (West of Warden & 16th Ave)✅NEW MANAGEMENT💯NEW GIRLS
  49. hiyamickey:
    6 girls working at Reynaella wellness, Address: 3555 14th Ave unit#7 Markham ☎️:905-470-8082
  50. Endless Joy Spa:
    ✨✨✨✨✨[GRAND OPENING]✨✨✨✨✨ 💞Endless Joy Spa💞 🎇 (155 East Beaver Creek Rd Unit #8, Richmond Hill) 416-731-8565🎇Young 19 Year Old Slim Petite Brazilian Hottie Julianna, Slim Sexy Chinese Kiki, New First Day Slim Petite Judy, Tall Slim Sexy Chinese Vicky
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