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21 with prolapsed discs... help

summer bear

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hi all,
3 years ago (aged 18) i started having very bad knee pain... to the entent where the pain would become so bad in my left leg that i would fall... i suffered from numbness in my foot too... i went from doctor to doctor , had MRI scan on my knee but they couldnt find anything and i was told it was m age! i went back to my GP again who refered me to a different hospital to see a knee specialist who said the last thing he could do was send my for an MRI on my lower back so i had this done... a few days later i felt something in my back and couldnt move for the shear pain... from then i struggled for about 8 months walking, sitting, laying, driving, lifting, carrying, reaching etc all caused me agony... i was told that i have prolapsed discs that have worn away and they dont know why... my consultant was no help and said that it wasnt pressing on a nerve and so there was nothing they could do.... my pain has been unbearable... i ended up on dicofenac, 30mg codeine plus 500mg of paracetamol x 2 four times a day plus firstly tramadol but that made me ill and so i went on amitriptyline. i also had physio which i had to change my physio because she was of no help... the guy i had next was much better... since january ive been really well... i came off the codeine/paracetamol and amitriptyline and just used the diclofenac... i could still feel the pressure in my back and i hardly lift and am very careful with bending etc. however ive felt it building the last week or so... this weekend it "snapped" again... i was limping like mad the same horrible pain in my left leg and hip and i'm dying to get to the doctors in the morning....
to be honest i just dont know what to do.... i feel like i cant have a normal life... ive been "better" for 4 months at the most and it goes again... my GP has said im a prime candidate for the disc replacement surgery but he doesnt think the surgery is good enough yet but in the future it is good for me... ive had no info off my doctors or anything about this... ive just been given painkillers... i was offered an epidural but i was scared stiff and so put it off...( does anyone know if this really helps?) im scared to do stuff in case it makes it worse! the most exercise i get now is walking and even that after a while takes its toll... im a healthy weight etc and try to keep at that as i know extra weight is bad for the back...
i could just do with any advise.... ive read many of the pages and as much as i wouldnt wish this on anyone its a relief to see its not just me...

many thanks
 
There are no simple answers but I will give you a start. Work on the things you can control and simple ideas like laying back on a swiss ball to allow vertabrae to relax and seperate creating space and a supporting bed. Your GP should be able to provide you with some exercises to strengthen the muscles around the spine and if you can see a good Osteopath that still does manual medicine, that can check you out he may have some good remedial ideas. The pain you are feeling is intense but in most cases is not damaging and mostly spasming muscles putting pressure on nerves, after a while you will develop some imunity, careful with all the drugs because it can create dependency. Be strong.
 
Hi

Sorry to hear about your pain

It occurs to me, that as you start by saying you experienced Knee pain, which then moved to numbness in your leg etc. that you might have bio-mechanical imbalance which initially caused a knee problem, which your body compensated for by altering your posture which has then caused a back problem?

You say the second physio was helping to the extent that you were reducing your pain killers, are you still seeing him?

Either way I would try someone who might take a more holistic view, chiropractors and osteopaths are very good imo at looking at the whole body. Physiotherapists can be too of course. Specially if you mention the pain started in your knee. I'm also a firm believer in using some form of decompression (inversion table, Nubax trio, etc) on a regular basis ie twice a day is great for general back pain.

Exercises for a healthy back are a life time thing by the way, we all need strong backs to cope with the stress of sitting, lifting, bending etc and that means regular (2 or 3 times a week) quality exercise to strengthen core muscles so they can cope.

Hope that is of some help.
Pete
 
hi, thanks for the replies
i no longer see the physio because my condition improved... my GP this morning he says its a relapse of the same disc and has put me back on my med and had upped my diclofenac dose for now... i'm to go back in a week when which it will hopefully have subsided again
my physio said that my muscles in my legs have degenerated because i have tried to protect my back subconsciously by walking and holding my body in a certain way. ive been given gentle exercises for this to help gradually build my muscles back up. i felt this was going quite well until now where i can feel myself slipping back into my old potective ways.... yeh sure i get less back pressure and pain but the pain in my knee and feet is unbearable i sometimes feel like my knee will snap. :S
i think if it continues i will be refered back to my physio but until then i am doing some research on ostepaths/chiropractor...
ive never done much research into the problem but many sites i have read say in the majority of cases the pain goes and the disc "gets better" after approx 6 weeks... however i suffered for at least 8 months AFTER diagnosis the last time and have only been ok for 4 months and its back...
whats the difference between a prolapsed disc and a prolapsed disc thats worn?
many thanks
 
Hi,

I am so sorry to hear about your pain. Have a look at http://www.chirogeek.com/index.htm for information about the discs. My mri's and how the discs work etc made a lot more sense to me after reading this site.

You are so young to have this problem, you probably need to get tougher with the doctors too to get a second opinion about what can be done now. Epidurals just put off the pain and all too soon the situation returns.
Do watch out for the Diclofenac too as these drugs can have long term side effects.

Cassie x
 
Hi Vicky

When you stopped seeing the Physio did you stop doing the exercises he prescribed?

It takes about 4 to 6 weeks for the body to respond (ie get stronger) to exercise, so I would guess it will take months to rebuild the muscles in your legs to the point where the muscles are balanced and strong enough to reliably function painlessly to the demands of daily life. Similarly it takes time to strengthen your core muscles. Once there the exercise needs to continue to keep the strength and balance. The old saying 'use it or lose it' is so true.

Short term manipulation from Osteopath/Chiropractor can be hugely beneficial. Long term the body needs to be strong enough to deal with daily demands. Even sitting at a desk requires an extreme amount of muscular stamina in the core muscles just to maintain a good posture.

Pete
 
Getting some deep tissue massage ( sports or remedial ) will help resolve engrained protective holding patterns and assist in a return to good posture by enhancing muscle function.
 
Hi Vicky

Sorry to hear that you're in such discomfort.

When I had upper back pain about 10 years ago, I chose to go and see a chiropractor - my thinking: I had seen an osteopath regularly when in London and this had certainly helped. Couldn't find a conveniently situated osteo so opted for the local chiro - as in my untutored mind they were pretty similar. [I know, I know - I can hear disagreements starting up all over the place about that!]

Well, something had definitely changed in my conciousness and this time around, however much I tried to relax, I just couldn't let my muscles relax enough to take the manipulation [crunch] and came out a lot worse.

After three sessions ending up in tears of pain each time, I gave up and by coincidence a friend dragged me along to a Tai Chi class [she's the one who was wanting to go in the first place] and I found that this gentle exercise helped more than anything I had tried up until that point. Of course she dropped out after two weeks - 8 years later I was still going to class!

Later, this inspired me to go on to train in the gentle Australian techniques of Bowen and later again, Emmett. Their power to release tightly held muscles with just finger tip touch have been jaw dropping for me as a practitioner.

So having gone all around the houses in this answer, I guess the important thing would be to try different methods; certainly one method doesn't suit everyone. Certainly deep or heavy manipulation did not work for me at that time in my life - probably now that I'm a therapist myself I may be able to allow such work.

If you would like to try either of the techniques that I practise then do check the Bowen and Emmett websites or pm me if you would like to try to find someone in your area.

Best wishes for your recovery - it will come.

Judith
 
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    ๐Ÿ’„Crystal is here Today! Call/Text: (647) 325-8086 ๐Ÿ’ฆ We have Hot & Sexy Girls Every Day. They all do Extra Services & are Very Open-Minded ~ Drop In Anytime - Walk-Ins Are Always Welcome! Unit 27, 10 East Wilmot Street, Richmond Hill
  31. Sparkling Spa:
    โœ…50 Lockridge Ave Unit 8โœ… ๐Ÿ‘ŒMarkham, ON L3R 8X4๐Ÿ‘Œ โ˜Ž๏ธ(905) 604-8186 Spa Land Lineโ˜Ž๏ธ โ˜Ž๏ธ(437) 446-6688 NEW Spa Cell Phoneโ˜Ž๏ธ (West of Warden & 16th Ave) ๐Ÿ”ฅโœ…NEW MANAGEMENT๐Ÿ’ฏNEW GIRLS๐Ÿ”ฅSUPERSTAR SERVICE QUEEN ZOE NOW AND MUI CALIENTE STELLA AVAILABLE TODAY AT SPARKLING SPA FOR ALL YOUR MASSAGE AND SPECIAL EXTRA NEEDS๐Ÿ”ฅ๐Ÿ’ฏ๐Ÿ˜˜๐Ÿ”ฅโค๏ธ๐Ÿ‘Œ ๐Ÿ”ฅ
  32. Red Rose Spa:
    ๐ŸŒธ We have 7 hot brown girls today ๐ŸŒธ MAY, SARIKA, SANA, AMANDA, ASHA, MALIYA, EVA ๐ŸŒธ 2588 Birchmount ๐ŸŒธ 2 Invergordon ๐ŸŒธ 647-702-8800 ๐ŸŒธ Please visit for a great erotic massage
  33. Bellagio Wellness &Spa:
    ๐Ÿ’—๐Ÿ’—๐Ÿ’— โ„๐”ธโ„™โ„™๐• ๐•„๐”ธโ„โ„‚โ„ ๐Ÿ’—๐Ÿ’—๐Ÿ’—๐ŸŒŸ๐ŸŒŸ๐ŸŒŸ MARCH 28th , ๐“ฃ๐“—๐“ค๐“ก๐“ข๐““๐“๐“จ ๐ŸŒŸ๐ŸŒŸ๐ŸŒŸ โ˜Ž๏ธ (905) 707-6866 ๐Ÿ•™๐ŸŒŸ๐ŸŒŸ๐ŸŒŸOpen 10:30-10:00๐Ÿ—บ#33-160 East Beaver Creek ๐Ÿ—บ 7 Rms ๐Ÿ›๐ŸŒŸ๐ŸŒŸ๐ŸŒŸTable Shower(TS)+Massage 2hr $120*,TS & massage 1hr $90, ๐ŸŒŸ๐ŸŒŸ๐ŸŒŸ$40/50/60 for 30/45/60min ๐ŸŒŸ๐ŸŒŸ๐ŸŒŸAttendants: We have 6๏ธโƒฃ today ๐Ÿ€๐Ÿ€๐Ÿ€ ๐ŸŒน๐Ÿ†• CHERRY ๐ŸŒน CECELIA ๐ŸŒน๐Ÿ†• SUNNY ๐ŸŒน๐Ÿ†• SOPHIE ๐ŸŒน ๐ŸŒนERICA ๐ŸŒน LUCY ๐Ÿ€๐Ÿ€๐Ÿ€ NEWSFLASH ๐Ÿ€๐Ÿ€๐Ÿ€ & ๐Ÿ†• SOPHIE & ERICA & ๐Ÿ†• SUNNY & CECELIA & ๐Ÿ†• CHERRY โ€˜ s BACK ๐Ÿ€๐Ÿ€๐Ÿ€ TODAY ๐Ÿ€๐Ÿ€๐Ÿ€
  34. Sparkling Spa:
    โšก๏ธ๐ŸŒŸSPARKLING SPAโšก๏ธ๐ŸŒŸ โœ…50 Lockridge Ave Unit 8โœ… ๐Ÿ‘ŒMarkham, ON L3R 8X4๐Ÿ‘Œ โ˜Ž๏ธ(905) 604-8186 Spa Land Lineโ˜Ž๏ธ โ˜Ž๏ธ(437) 446-6688 NEW Spa Cell Phoneโ˜Ž๏ธ (West of Warden & 16th Ave) OPEN 10am to 9pm MONDAY to SUNDAY ๐Ÿ”ฅโœ…NEW MANAGEMENT๐Ÿ’ฏNEW GIRLS๐Ÿ”ฅSUPERSTAR SERVICE QUEENS AVAILABLE AT SPARKLING SPA FOR ALL YOUR MASSAGE AND SPECIAL EXTRA NEEDS๐Ÿ”ฅ๐Ÿ’ฏ๐Ÿ˜˜๐Ÿ”ฅโค๏ธ๐Ÿ‘Œ ๐Ÿ”ฅSEXY NEW YOUNG GIRLS ALWAYS WORKING - Todayโ€™s Schedule isโ€ฆ๐Ÿ”ฅJAV MODEL CHANEL AND SEX QUEEN ZOE
  35. Lily Spa:
    โค๏ธ KAJAL, CAMILLA and KK are here today for your massage needs โค๏ธ Lily Spa โค๏ธ 2190 McNicoll โค๏ธ Scarborough โค๏ธ M1V 5M2 โค๏ธ (647) 531-8288 โค๏ธ
  36. SpringGreen.:
    Today we have 5 girls on wednesday๏ผš New Spanish bunny ๐Ÿ’‹๐Ÿ’‹Diana - Tanned Spanish beauty with large melons and a fun booty too Wendy- exotic goddess with a gymnasts body and corresponding flexibility CiCi- Exotic beauty with great service and attitude kk- Spunky fun in a nice package new litina buny Call...
  37. Endless Joy Spa:
    โœจโœจโœจโœจโœจ[GRAND OPENING]โœจโœจโœจโœจโœจ ๐Ÿ’žEndless Joy Spa๐Ÿ’ž ๐ŸŽ‡ (155 East Beaver Creek Rd Unit #8, Richmond Hill) 416-731-8565๐ŸŽ‡Young Sexy Slim Chinese Kiki, Sexy Chinese Abie & Young Sexy Chinese Jessica, Slim Chinese Lisa
  38. Moneylee:
    All season wellness center : young girl pretty face nice figure Thai deep massage Helen,Young girl big breasted beautiful buttocks charming temperament Alice ,Young girl Big breasted saucy naughty Ella , Enchanting sexy petite deep massage Sherry ,address: #5-30 Rambler dr Brampton ,Ontario L6W 1E2โ˜Ž๏ธ4376655510 ๐Ÿ‘…๐Ÿ‘…๐Ÿฆต๐Ÿฆต๐Ÿˆต๏ธ๐Ÿˆต๏ธ๐Ÿ‘„๐Ÿ‘„
  39. Moneylee:
    Full season wellness center: Young girl big breasted beautiful buttocks charming temperament big boobs Julie ,Young girl big breasted beautiful buttocks charming temperament big boobs Nina ,Young girl Big-breasted big big butts Aris ,Young beautiful face sexy body and good deep massage maggie,Enchanting sexy petite deep massage Mary. ๐Ÿ  2560 Shepard ave Mississauga unit 1 โ˜Ž๏ธ 4379857899 ๐Ÿ‘„๐Ÿ‘„๐Ÿฆต๐Ÿฆต๐Ÿˆต๏ธ๐Ÿˆต๏ธ๐Ÿ‘…๐Ÿ‘…
  40. Annie Spa:
    ๐ŸŽ‰๐Ÿ’ANNIE SPA๐ŸŽ‰๐Ÿ’ โœ…7-1001 SANDHURST CIRCLEโœ… ๐Ÿ‘ŒSCARBOROUGH ON M1V 1Z6๐Ÿ‘Œ โ˜Ž๏ธ(416) 291-8879โ˜Ž๏ธ (FINCH & MCCOWAN) OPEN 10am to 9pm MONDAY to SUNDAY ๐Ÿ”ฅโœ…NEW MANAGEMENT๐Ÿ’ฏNEW GIRLS๐Ÿ”ฅ๐Ÿ”ฅ ๐Ÿ”ฅGORGEOUS NEW YOUNG ASIAN GIRLS - TODAYโ€™s ROSTER INCLUDES: ๐Ÿ”ฅ Kelly๐Ÿ˜˜๐Ÿ’•is beautiful young student, busty with sexy body and provides very good massage and excellent service. So friendly and very sexy. Ivy โค๏ธ is new girl in our branch, shy and sweet but also very vocal and needy, she demands your happiness
  41. Red Rose Spa:
    ๐ŸŒธ We have 7 hot brown girls today ๐ŸŒธ ASHA, MONIKA, RAVEN, AMANDA, DELILAH, PRIYA, SANA, EVA ๐ŸŒธ 2588 Birchmount ๐ŸŒธ 2 Invergordon ๐ŸŒธ 647-702-8800 ๐ŸŒธ Please visit for a great erotic massage
  42. Sparkling Spa:
    โšก๏ธ๐ŸŒŸSPARKLING SPAโšก๏ธ๐ŸŒŸ โœ…50 Lockridge Ave Unit 8โœ… ๐Ÿ‘ŒMarkham, ON L3R 8X4๐Ÿ‘Œ โ˜Ž๏ธ(905) 604-8186 Spa Land Lineโ˜Ž๏ธ โ˜Ž๏ธ(437) 446-6688 NEW Spa Cell Phoneโ˜Ž๏ธ (West of Warden & 16th Ave) OPEN 10am to 9pm MONDAY to SUNDAY ๐Ÿ”ฅโœ…NEW MANAGEMENT๐Ÿ’ฏNEW GIRLS๐Ÿ”ฅSUPERSTAR SERVICE QUEENS AVAILABLE AT SPARKLING SPA FOR ALL YOUR MASSAGE AND SPECIAL EXTRA NEEDS๐Ÿ”ฅ๐Ÿ’ฏ๐Ÿ˜˜๐Ÿ”ฅโค๏ธ๐Ÿ‘Œ ๐Ÿ”ฅSEXY NEW YOUNG GIRLS ALWAYS WORKING - Todayโ€™s Schedule isโ€ฆ๐Ÿ”ฅJAV MODEL CHANEL AND SEX QUEEN ZOE
  43. bnwellness_wilson:
    Blue Nile Wellness Center, we have young 4 beautiful girls are working today , sweet new girl Amy and pretty GFE Ella, cute open mind Lina and friendly Coco are providing deep tissue and sensual massage, pls call 416-3985777 book appointment and walk in always welcome, back entrance and parking available, 350 Wilson Ave North York
  44. Peony Garden Spa:
    ๐ŸŒธ2 GIRLS AVAILABLE ๐ŸŒธ EMILY: A CURVY PETITE THAI GIRL THAT IS VERY FRIENDLY AND SPEAKS FLUENT ENGLISH, VERY OPEN WHEN IT COMES TO SERVICE ๐ŸŒธ YOYO: A YOUNG SLIM REAL SCHOOL GIRL THAT IS NEW TO THE BUSINESS, SPEAKS FLUENT ENGLISH AND VERY FRIENDLY TO TALK TO ๐ŸŒธ PEONY GARDEN SPA ๐ŸŒธ 3477 KENNEDY ROAD UNIT 4 ๐ŸŒธ (416) 335-6093 ๐ŸŒธ
  45. Sunrise Health Centre:
    Amy & Michelle are in Today! Call/Text: (647) 325-8086 ๐Ÿ’ฆ We have Hot & Sexy Girls Every Day. They all do Extra Services & are Very Open-Minded ~ Drop In Anytime - Walk-Ins Are Always Welcome! Unit 27, 10 East Wilmot Street, Richmond Hill
  46. HolidaySpa:
    Wednesday at ๐ŸŒด๐Ÿ˜Ž๐ŸŒ…๐“—๐“ธ๐“ต๐“ฒ๐“ญ๐“ช๐”‚ ๐“ข๐“น๐“ช๐ŸŒ…๐Ÿ˜Ž๐ŸŒด3517 Kennedy Rd, Unit 4, Scarborough โ˜Ž๏ธ๐Ÿฐ๐Ÿฏ๐Ÿณ-๐Ÿฎ๐Ÿฐ๐Ÿณ-๐Ÿญ๐Ÿญ๐Ÿต๐Ÿตโ˜Ž๏ธKelly & Kiki. Kelly is slim and attractive with very slight curves, a nice bum, and rockinโ€™ services. Kiki is very attractive, young, about 5โ€™4โ€ and 110 Lbs., slim with a banging body. Kiki is very popular for her great attitude and services.
  47. ForeverWarden:
    Wednesday at ๐Ÿซฆโค๏ธ๐Ÿ”ด๐ŸŸฅโ™พ๏ธ๐“•๐“ž๐“ก๐“”๐“ฅ๐“”๐“ก ๐“ข๐“Ÿ๐“โ™พ๏ธ๐ŸŸฅ๐Ÿ”ดโค๏ธ๐Ÿซฆ2190 Warden Ave, Unit 201, Scarborough ๐Ÿฐ๐Ÿญ๐Ÿฒ-๐Ÿด๐Ÿฌ๐Ÿฌ-๐Ÿณ๐Ÿด๐Ÿด๐Ÿณ: Bella & Sasa. Bella is around 5โ€™3โ€ with a thin to medium build, C Cups, and a pleasing personality. She can offer dfk, bbbj and cfs as well as a good massage experience. Sasa is a slim & sweet Korean lady, about 5โ€™4โ€ with C Cups.
  48. New Oriental Health Centre:
    Vivian & Happy are here today๐Ÿ’„~๐Ÿ“žCall ๐Ÿ“ฒ Text: (647) 381-2688 ๐Ÿ’„ Make Your Day Incredibly Delicious ๐Ÿ‘ Our girls provide lots of service options & are Extremely Open-Minded ๐Ÿค— We're Open 9am - 2am everyday! Drop in to Unit 26, 10 East Wilmot Street, Richmond Hill.
  49. Bellagio Wellness &Spa:
    ๐Ÿ’—๐Ÿ’—๐Ÿ’— โ„๐”ธโ„™โ„™๐• ๐•„๐”ธโ„โ„‚โ„ ๐Ÿ’—๐Ÿ’—๐Ÿ’—๐ŸŒŸ๐ŸŒŸ๐ŸŒŸ MARCH 27th , ๐“ฆ๐“”๐““๐“๐“”๐“ข๐““๐“๐“จ ๐ŸŒŸ๐ŸŒŸ๐ŸŒŸ โ˜Ž๏ธ (905) 707-6866 ๐Ÿ•™๐ŸŒŸ๐ŸŒŸ๐ŸŒŸOpen 10:30-10:00๐Ÿ—บ#33-160 East Beaver Creek ๐Ÿ—บ 7 Rms ๐Ÿ›๐ŸŒŸ๐ŸŒŸ๐ŸŒŸTable Shower(TS)+Massage 2hr $120*,TS & massage 1hr $90, ๐ŸŒŸ๐ŸŒŸ๐ŸŒŸ$40/50/60 for 30/45/60min ๐ŸŒŸ๐ŸŒŸ๐ŸŒŸAttendants: We have 7๏ธโƒฃ today ๐Ÿ€๐Ÿ€๐Ÿ€ ๐ŸŒน๐Ÿ†• LILIAN ๐ŸŒน๐Ÿ†• CHERRY ๐ŸŒน CECELIA ๐ŸŒน๐Ÿ†• SUNNY ๐ŸŒน๐Ÿ†• SOPHIE ๐ŸŒน ๐ŸŒนERICA ๐ŸŒน LUCY ๐Ÿ€๐Ÿ€๐Ÿ€ NEWSFLASH ๐Ÿ€๐Ÿ€๐Ÿ€ ๐Ÿ†• LILIAN & ๐Ÿ†• SOPHIE & ERICA & ๐Ÿ†• SUNNY & CECELIA & ๐Ÿ†• CHERRY โ€˜ s BACK ๐Ÿ€๐Ÿ€๐Ÿ€ TODAY ๐Ÿ€๐Ÿ€
  50. hiyamickey:
    6 young sexy girls working @ 3555 14th Ave unit #7 Markham, โ˜Ž๏ธ๏ผš905-470-8082
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