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brandon raynor training

Discussion in 'Massage Therapies & Techniques' started by PaigeyPoo<3(:, Mar 2, 2012.

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  1. PaigeyPoo<3(:

    PaigeyPoo<3(: New Member

    Jan 19, 2011

    i am looking to retrain as a massage therapist and have come across the brandon raynor massage courses.

    i love the ethos behind the training, but am worried about the legitimacy of the qualification and whether i would be better off going down the traditional ITEC route.

    has anyone done the course or have any views/advice on this?

    *whimsy girl
  2. UcLsm

    UcLsm New Member

    Jan 21, 2011
    I witnessed an exchange on another message board that involved the man himslef - it was not pretty. It was probably one of the most agressive bodywork threads I have ever read. From reading that exchange I know I wouldn't contemplate having anything to do with his school.

    The ethos behind the training is seriously flawed - people in traditional cultures don't need to go spend months on a course or learning western stlye anatomy, so why should you? They can be great massage therapists without having done a days formal training. 2 flaws in that, most traiditional cultures have massage as such an integral part of every day life, they've spent a life time learning it, just not in a classroom. As for anatomy, he says he can teach you all you need to know about the Eastern energy systems so you can ignore western anatomy in a few days, that's a huge insult to both systems.

    If you look at his website and the websites of practitioners, they're usually going on about 'the best massage ever', 'the deepest massage every', the ultimate whatever, seems to be a lot of ego behind those statements.
  3. B-rye

    B-rye New Member

    Nov 14, 2010
    Are they accredited??

    Someone I know did a course with them and I am not sure if they are and I dont think it was the most positive experience.
  4. Philip Hartley

    Philip Hartley New Member

    Nov 20, 2010
    I did my first massage course with Brandon himself 6 years ago. It was a 5 day intensive course which concentrated solely on massage techniques. After the course I was given a certificate along with a list of insurance companies, including Balens, who recognised the qualifications from Brandon's school. Yes the massage system is extreme and very deep. But it works.

    Also, Reiki courses don't teach western anatomy. Does this mean that Reiki practitioners shouldn't be considered as accredited?

    We're forgetting one important thing here. The knowledge we learn from courses is important, but how we use that knowledge with clients is up to us. We don't have to copy exactly what we're taught as long as what we do works.
  5. having a deep thought

    having a deep thought New Member

    Nov 14, 2010
    Hi ya Kajibushi

    Of course I agree with you, what works - works.

    But it is important for a massage therapist to study A&P due to the fact that you can hurt someone and make them ill. Even though I laugh at contraindication lists, its still an important issue. Massage does have contraindications.

    As for Reiki, A&P isn't so necessary as its gentle and doesn't hardly have any contraindications.

    Other benefit of A&P study is that it focuses healing intention. It's a paradigm for the mind to work with and in turn energy flows with these healing thoughts. And other benefit is better communication with other healthcare professionals. Once I was studying on a massage course in Thailand, and one of the students is an Austrian physiotherapist. I was able to communicate with her with terminology used in A&P.

    As for Reiki courses, the Complementary Therapists Association (using the old GCP Reiki standards) expect Reiki members to have A&P, and examination boards such as VTCT and ITEC you have to study A&P. It's just a fact of life now. If Reiki people and pixies can't be bothered, its not the end of the world .

    Best Wishes

    Reiki Pixie
  6. Nathaniel Mckinney

    Nathaniel Mckinney New Member

    Jan 28, 2011
    Hi Reiki Pixie

    Didn't mean to imply that knowledge about contraindications, A&P weren't important as I know they are. Wasn't sure how much you could write in these pages. The course notes I received from Brandon covered contraindications. I don't have any formal qualifications in A&P. Neither do any of the Indian, Chinese, Thai and Japanese therapists I've worked with and learned from. But we know how the human body works which is important.

    In my case I've taught myself. Books are easily obtainable and some of the best ones are the ones that you can colour in yourself. I'd recommend these to anyone. Even if your on a course that is teaching you. I don't know the latin names used in Western medicine and in 6 years of practice I've hardly ever had a client use the latin terminology. The ones who did had looked it up first or were told by a GP or Pysio or actually were GP's and Physio's with whom I've been able to communicate with no problems.

    Before I start a massage, Reiki or meditation session I recite this little verse I wrote to myself.

    The Spirit Within
    With your mind see the flow of Ki
    The form of the bones, the sinews, the muscles.
    With your body feel the totality of physicalness
    Experience the wonder of the living spirit within.
    Nurture it.All the best
  7. Katamadze

    Katamadze New Member

    Jan 20, 2011
    Kajibushi: Whether Chinese, Thai or Japanese experts have A&P or not, most insurance companies in the UK won't insure practitioners of massage without A&P. There is plenty of people out there that have gone to Asia/Far East to study and had a shock coming back to the UK and find they have problems in obtaining insurance coverage. They usually end up at a local college studying A, P and Massage. It's good to hear that you continued your studies.

    Whimsy Girl: The reality of massage training in the UK, you will have to do several courses to be really good. Do both of the courses you mention and benefit.

    Best Wishes

    Reiki Pixie
  8. 0Skater4Life0

    0Skater4Life0 New Member

    Jan 4, 2011
    Hi whimsy girl

    As you can see from these posts people have different experiences regarding the complimentary therapies industry. This is how life works thankfully, wouldn't it be so boring if it didn't? (lol).

    If anyone out there is stuck for insurance give Balens a try. They've an extensive list of therapy modalities they cover and will also consider insuring ones that aren't on their lists if you ask.

    Take care
  9. vmeosuysinyimpecd

    vmeosuysinyimpecd New Member

    Jan 24, 2011
    United States

    Thought you might be interested in light of your debate

  10. Sarah lopez xx

    Sarah lopez xx New Member

    Nov 14, 2010
    The most common legal complaint I've heard about with massage therapists is fractured ribs - that first video looks like a great way to do that! Poor guy is squirming all over the place, it can make it very difficult to sink into muscles, though there is a comment that he's going firmly because the guy is used to it, it's not his first massage. And as for the neck adjustment in part 2!!! Looks like referring out for adjustments to someone with adjustments in their scope of practice isn't covered much in the training. Not exactly great body mechanics for the therapist or client, bolsters under knees? ankles?

    I'd love to hear from people doing this style of massage how popular it is. either if it is the only kind they do, how often people rebook, or if it's one of a variety on offer, if they ever choose it again. I'm sure there are some good bits that could get used in any treatment as needed, but as a full treatment, looks a bit intense, particularly when he says 1.5-2.5hrs appointments initially, shorter appointments for maintenance.
  11. Shauna

    Shauna Member

    Oct 28, 2009
    Just watched part 1 - if i had my toes cracked like that I would inadvertently kick the therapist!
  12. Alexa.Ann

    Alexa.Ann Member

    Sep 20, 2009
    Hi ya Cola

    I have just watched the videos.

    I never heard of fractured ribs and massage therapies. I would say that most massage therapists use too lighter pressures too do anything like that.

    Yes the neck and toe cracking looked a bit excessive, but personally what I saw on the videos looked very similar to how I practice, and a similar logic too (I've studied Thai, Indonesian & Chinese massage). My regular clients tell me they like the deeper pressures other practitioners wont do. So they rebook. There is nothing wrong in 1.5 to 2 hour massages. A lot of people really need it. It doesn't have to be rushed and time can be used effectivily (bad spelling) to work on chronic deep seated problems. For example, I worked this morning on a client for 2 hours. Not only because he has a lot of musculoskeletal problems, but also because he has to travel an hour to get to me, and as a self-employed person he may be working all day tomorrow. So to him it's a cost effective treatment and time saver.

    Best Wishes

    Reiki Pixie
  13. DAWK1723

    DAWK1723 New Member

    Jan 3, 2011
    I've got no problems with longer appointments, in fact I have quite a few regulars with longer appointments because they just don't find 1hr hands on enough (I won't do less, well I will because people ask for it, but 30min is priced only 10% less than 1hr, so most people will end up going for 1hr anyway).

    Long appointments for the initial appointments seemed a bit much to me - many bodies will end up fighting back if you go for that long at that intensity initially. Which is why I'm interested in how many people offer this particular style and get rebookings. Many of the 'therapists' listed on the website seem to be B&B owners that probably got fed up trying to organise someone coming in and thought they'd do it themselves and went for a quick course. Are there professional practitioners just offering this style by name getting lots of repeat clients? Most of the raving comments seem to be by new graduates (as it is with most schools, the feedback form on the last day, how was your experience? is filled out with glowing comments, or at least only the glowing comments are referenced on the website, it's common sense) even the raving comments on message boards are along the lines of 'I just completed the course and found it amazing'. I'm interested how someone has found it in the long term, with more than one client a week.

    Where I am, cases of fractured ribs happen every year, usually inexperienced therapists, but light 'holistic massage' training doesn't exist, basic qualification is sports/remedial/therapeutic style to be qualified, but you can put your shingle out as a massage therapist without any training if you want, you could even do one of these courses and put your shingle out.
  14. paczkafioricetoxxe3

    paczkafioricetoxxe3 New Member

    Jan 17, 2011
    Hi ya Cola

    What do you mean by "put your shingle out ?" I'm assuming you are not in the UK. In the UK most practitioners start with Basic Holistic/Swedish/Classical (whatever you wish to call it) massage, then study advanced stuff, if they wish.

    As for marketing massage courses, no one is going to put on their website that someone thought it was rubbish. It's no different with textbooks. Always great stories of how massage (or any other therapy) revolutionised someones life, but they never talk about when things go wrong. To me that's just as interesting, but then, that wouldn't sale books.

    Best Wishes

  15. pjamies

    pjamies Member

    Nov 8, 2009
    put your shingle out is put your sign out saying you're a massage therapist. I am not in the UK, which is the reason I explained why there are probably more broken ribs reported because the basic styles taught, beyond a 2 day intro to massage, are not light 'holistic massage' styles.

    I don't expect a school website to have include glowing comments, but I'd be interested to hear from anyone with long term experience with this style about how they've found it, and that may be good or bad, but there don't seem to be any long term brandon raynor practitioners making any comments on here. Maybe they are all too busy to contribute to a message board?
  16. Pompal 09.

    Pompal 09. Active Member

    Feb 9, 2011
    Hi ya Cola

    I do know of someone who has trained in Raynor massage. I might book a treatment with her to see what's it like.


  17. So slick.

    So slick. Member

    Jan 17, 2010
    Hi Folks

    I still use techniques taught by Brandon. I can't call it the Raynor technique though as I've added other techniques to my massages: Meditation, energy channeling, assisted stretching with massage and Tantric based techniques. My full body massages last approximately 90 minutes with new clients. With regulars it can sometimes be 3 hours, that's not all purely massage though.

    People who've had regular deep tissue massages will have no problems with Brandons technique but those who've only had light massage modalities and don't have regular massages will find it hard going and painful. As clients have more massages using Brandons techniques it gets easier for them as the knots and tension are removed.

    People forget that massage is a progressive therapy and to get the most benefit from it you have to have a massage regularly. The ideal would be once a week, fortnight, but monthly is usually the norm for most people. I advise once a month if clients ask how often. More frequently if they're able to afford it.

  18. jackiechan

    jackiechan New Member

    Oct 4, 2010
    Looked at the You tube links and have to say it is odd stuff. As a sports massage therapist I tend to be quite open to new or extreme techniques but this was altogether wrong in many cases.
    Firstly because he never once mentioned a muscle by name or its action. He made various assumptions on where the client would be tight without doing any tests for muscle tightness.
    Secondly what was that spinal manipulation all about in clip 1. That is not massage and should not be encouraged. This massage is about showmanship and nothing else.
    I think this guy is a quack, unless someone can prove otherwise.
  19. Just To Me

    Just To Me Member

    Jan 9, 2010
    He avoids use of western anatomy, says you only need the eastern energy systems. I wouldn't say that makes him a quack, a large part of the world doesn't worry about western style anatomy when working on a body. You could certainly have a start to understanding eastern style energy systems on a 5 day course, though I don't think you could expect it to cover all you need to know (even if you do the next 5 day course too). It's the all you will ever need to actually know bit that might be approaching quack status, but then I'm not a fan of anyone saying 'this is all you will ever need to know about this'.

    The way kajibushi has been using it sounds like the way someone would build on it. The longer appointments for first appointment and shorter appointments for maintenance comments in the video still have me puzzled for a fairly intense style. Regulars having longer appointments is not unusual. First timers being recommended having long intense work is unusual. kajibushi doesn't work like that. I wonder if anyone has found that was workable?
  20. FLSwampBoi

    FLSwampBoi New Member

    Nov 29, 2010
    Hi Guys I just discovered this thread and thought I'd throw my 2 cents in since this discussion is sort of about me.

    Firstly, I would like to invite anyone interested in our style of massage to come to the Thames Rowing Club in Putney this Friday August 1 to our student clinic. Please email me if you would like to attend and make a booking. Friend, foe and anyone in between are welcome.

    Please be prepared though that these people have had 10 days training in our massage style and with our style we often work people up to their pain threshold in order to get rid of deep seated tension and I myself may come around and help and I do all sorts of radical things that may scare you...he he just joking sort of.

    Also sometimes we laugh a lot when we massage so if this offends you then please accept my apologies in advance.

    Anyway in regards to the other stuff all I can say the proof of the pudding is in the eating but this massage in its pure form is a bit like a hot curry - not really for wimps and I have had heard that a lot of people in the UK only like what I call surface massage. However, we always make the massage suit the person and never is it more than a person can deal with. We teach people to temper the massage for those clients that are not used to strong massage.

    Anyway I am not the ogre some people seem to think I am - at least I don't think I am - hehe if that makes sense but we do do a very strong and powerful form of massage and I am a Leo so I am a bit of a showman - sorry if that offends you - its part of my personality. I was also a politician for a while in Australia as the head of the political party EarthSave so sorry if my debating skills are a bit more refined and can be yang style when attacked rather than the yin style most natural therapists adopt. Between running EarthSave, taking on and winning against McDonalds and later running the Green Liberals http://www.greenliberals.org.au/. I am quite used to being attacked for what I believe in and having other massage therapists criticize my school, my massage style and even now my personality is not that big a deal to me, as compared to some of the environmental, natural health and animal rights campaign I have been in.

    Anyway its late and I am starting to rave on....

    Hope to meet some of you at our student clinic

    Best wishes
    Brandon Raynor
    [email protected]

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